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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Group Purchase for O'Connor etc.

Another carbon fiber vs. aluminum thought...

CF is very good at dampening lateral vibrations, aluminum is very good at transferring vibrations to the head and camera.

Thinkbug, do you really need that 2060 head? It's a monster. IMO, the 1030HDS makes a lot more sense. It supports plenty of weight and is a lot smaller. You sacrifice some tilt range to gain the weight rating, but ask yourself how often you will really need that tilt range and if a tilt plate will work for those occasions. OTOH, the 2060 is a fine head and will give you lots of options to mount a very loaded RED setup or other heavy gear. But it's a lot of money to spend if you don't know for sure what you'll be doing with it.

As for me, I'm still undecided on this group buy deal. I don't need the head until January when my RED ships. I don't know if I want to just go for it and buy the new head (decent price, very tempting) or if I want keep searching for a good deal on a used O'Connor or Vinten system -- I've been looking and not having much luck after I foolishly passed on a used Vinten V11 kit a couple months back.
 
I think your right... it is about to get ugly. This is coming from a guy who IS a camera op/content producer WITH clients... but then again I never planned on renting out... I have too much work.
 
I can make more money with RED using it than renting it. I don't understand this whole rental fascination and people who think they can rent out the camera and whoring themselves out along with it as DIT or some super-cheap DP/ 1AC.

The days of $550/day well-equipped RED setups are nearly upon us. So are the days of "selling my RED -- can't afford it -- need RED Pocket cam instead". If it weren't for the warranty not transferring, I'd almost just plan on buying someone else's pre-owned and hardly used RED sometime early next year.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I can make more money with RED using it than renting it. I don't understand this whole rental fascination and people who think they can rent out the camera and whoring themselves out along with it as DIT or some super-cheap DP/ 1AC.

The days of $550/day well-equipped RED setups are nearly upon us. So are the days of "selling my RED -- can't afford it -- need RED Pocket cam instead". If it weren't for the warranty not transferring, I'd almost just plan on buying someone else's pre-owned and hardly used RED sometime early next year.
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Ya supply is going to be massive and it would not suprise me if we see red cameras on ebay selling for $10,000-$11,000. Stephen posted a link to a guy that tried to sell a red on ebay last week. It looks like he did not get a single bid. I am also tempted just to wait a bit and pick one up for cheap off of e-bay.

A lot of rental houses rent gear at around 1% of value so $250 for a $25,000 red package. Then they also offer 2 or 3 day weeks so $500 to $750 a week. Some people are going to lose a lot of money on this camera.
 
Finner said:
Stephen posted a link to a guy that tried to sell a red on ebay last week. It looks like he did not get a single bid.
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Stephen loves to stir...

There were 2 auctions on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-ONE-4K-Digi...yZ122611QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250170811893&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015

Both Ebay auctions were ended early. in both auctions the cameras weren't actually available for sale because the seller hadn't taken delivery of the camera. The first auction required the buyer to pay a $2000 refundable deposit (minus $500 cancelation fee) to be paid within 48 hours of the auction's end. although the camera wasn't going to be available for over a months. In the second auction the seller required $5000 on completion of the auction.

It will be interesting to see what price the first RedONE that is properly sold on Ebay will go for. I don't believe it will fetch over the odds but I think it will get bids. I don't reckon you can read anything into the dodgy looking auctions which have been placed so far.

M
 
Finner said:
Save your money for a great movie and hire a dp with a red system and save yourself a lot of headache and money.
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That would be great advice if I was only planning to make one movie with no further aspirations. But I'm starting a production company, and I want to shoot with the RED myself. I plan to spend everyday shooting, on my projects, friends' projects, and just to learn, something I could not do if I had to rent or borrow. I'm very excited about that prospect.

As for renting it out, until I am proficient enough in my own right, I will likely only do that through my friends who are all working DPs and who have expressed a keen interest in using my gear (versus buying their own).

Finally, with the exception of the Red body itself, I am planning to buy quality equipment that will hold its value over time (in case I want to sell it later). Oconnor seems to fit that bill. (not that the RED isn't quality, but it's long term resale value is uncertain)

This seems like the right path for me, but maybe not for everyone.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Thinkbug, do you really need that 2060 head? It's a monster.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm not sure, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. The 1030HDS is still not cheap, and if I needed more weight capacity I may regret not having a sturdier option. I want something I can grow with too, not something that is maxed out from Day One. But I still need to think about it.

Your comment about vibrations is useful. In controlled, narrative filmmaking, I wonder how often that is an issue? If I was shooting jets launching off (or trapping on) a carrier, something I've done in the Navy, it would obviously be huge. :)
 
And get wood sticks with it if vibration being transmitted thru the legs is a worry. Amateur astronomers use little round vibration isolators at the tip of the tripod feet. I don't know if they are availble for the weight range of your setup. What is important is to keep the load balanced over the center of gravity of the head with a sliding base plate.
 
chuck colburn said:
What is important is to keep the load balanced over the center of gravity of the head with a sliding base plate.
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That begs another newbie question: I know the max is 60lbs, but is there a minimum, optimal weight for the 2060? If the set up at a given time is only 27lbs or even less, is that easy to counter-balance? I recall hearing that sometimes too light is an issue as well.
 
thinkbug said:
Your comment about vibrations is useful. In controlled, narrative filmmaking, I wonder how often that is an issue? If I was shooting jets launching off (or trapping on) a carrier, something I've done in the Navy, it would obviously be huge. :)
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The only time vibrations have been an issue for me is when I'm shooting in an industrial environment. Since moving to carbon sticks from aluminum, I have had less issue with vibrations on factory and shop floors as well as construction sites. Vibrations are still an issue with carbon, it just muffles them somewhat in comparison to aluminum.
 
thinkbug said:
That begs another newbie question: I know the max is 60lbs, but is there a minimum, optimal weight for the 2060? If the set up at a given time is only 27lbs or even less, is that easy to counter-balance? I recall hearing that sometimes too light is an issue as well.
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To light of a camera set up performs poorly on to heavy dudy of a head. Heads list max and min weight requirements. To get the best performance from a head you want your camera to mainly be sitting at a weight that is right in the middle of the two numbers.
 
digitalfx said:
the 2060 and 2575 are rated from 0lbs...they handle any size up to the max the same...thats they beauty of these heads over the cheaper heads
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Sorry but this statement could not be more wrong.

I've operated with the 2575 for over 8 years and it comes no where close to performing the same with a 25-30lb set up as compared to a 70 lb set up. With any camera that will weigh in at 30-37lb's complete I rent the sachtler 7+7 way over the 2575. The 2575 does not work that well with too light a camera, I can not comment on the 2060 as I have never used it but it is based on a similair design platform so I would lean to thinking it would react the same way. Companies will tell you often 0 as the starting weight as it can handle 0 or 1-lbs but no head performs well under weighted. Check out some online reviews on the heads as those will give you much better information.
 
Finner said:
Sorry but this statement could not be more wrong.

I've operated with the 2575 for over 8 years and it comes no where close to performing the same with a 25-30lb set up as compared to a 70 lb set up. With any camera that will weigh in at 30-37lb's complete I rent the sachtler 7+7 way over the 2575. The 2575 does not work that well with too light a camera, I can not comment on the 2060 as I have never used it but it is based on a similair design platform so I would lean to thinking it would react the same way. Companies will tell you often 0 as the starting weight as it can handle 0 or 1-lbs but no head performs well under weighted. Check out some online reviews on the heads as those will give you much better information.
Click to expand...

I have only used the 2575 with a 435 package, but I based my earlier statement on a phone call I made to OConnor several months ago where I asked them this very question and they told me that the new heads are rated from zero pounds to the max listed. I asked them if that meant I could put a 10lb camera on the head and expect the same action as a 50lb camera and they said "absolutely".
So either they are full of crap or they have made changes to the "C" version of the head that is the current model.

I would like to know myself now before I order. My Red will be here next week...looks like I should rent one and test it before ordering.
 
That would probably be a good idea. I do not believe I have used a "C" version 2575 head. Personally I can not see any head working the same at 5lbs of weight as compared to 70lbs of weight. Every head I have ever used works best in the middle of its weight range. I could be wrong though with oconors new heads, it would really suprise me if they created a head that could do that though.

Anyone with experience with these new "c" model heads your input would be great.
 
Nudge

Nudge

Looking good for the group purchase... Just a reminder that I will be sending the vendor information out (to eveyone who wants to place an order) on Tuesday October 16th. So if you haven't already PM if interested.

Steve
 
Steve, is there a chance that given enough interest your vendor would want to do another group purchase in December or January? I'd bet that alot of people are like me in wanting to wait until a date that is closer to when their cameras ship.
 
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