GROUP BUY - eMotimo ST4 + Dana Dolly

[Brian Burling]

Hey Group Buy participants,

Thanks for your support! Tier 4 with almost 3 weeks to go was way faster than we anticipated. This is a good thing so let's start fulfilling early. Spoke with Mike from Dana Dolly just now and we agreed that if you want something from either of our stores, we can add this to your order. We can't give the same discounts, but happy to extend 10% off those items as part of this order. A few people asked about alternate track, or other accessories - this is our answer.

FYI, we are going to keep the Group Buy open through the end of slated period (March 26th)! As our inventory gets lower, we think we can keep up, but might need to push delivery dates out if this keep on getting bigger. As of this message, we are confident all units will be in the shipping systems before we head on off to NAB. Our goal is to deliver much earlier.

Phil will run it and start it off soon!

-Brian

 

[Anthony Berenato Jr]

Hey Group Buy participants,

Thanks for your support! Tier 4 with almost 3 weeks to go was way faster than we anticipated. This is a good thing so let's start fulfilling early. Spoke with Mike from Dana Dolly just now and we agreed that if you want something from either of our stores, we can add this to your order. We can't give the same discounts, but happy to extend 10% off those items as part of this order. A few people asked about alternate track, or other accessories - this is our answer.

FYI, we are going to keep the Group Buy open through the end of slated period (March 26th)! As our inventory gets lower, we think we can keep up, but might need to push delivery dates out if this keep on getting bigger. As of this message, we are confident all units will be in the shipping systems before we head on off to NAB. Our goal is to deliver much earlier.

Phil will run it and start it off soon!

-Brian

Hey Brian, so much appreciation. That sounds fantastic.

 

[Phil Holland]

Alright party people. Since we've hit max discount at Tier 4 fairly early on in the Group Buy and these products actually exist I've sent out PMs to the first 33 of you who have participated in this group buy to help get the ball rolling and processing your orders.

The group buy will remain open until the end date of course, so there's time to jump in if you haven't already, but eMotimo and Dana Dolly can start working on orders for those of you who are ready to go now.

I have to say, nicely done on all sides here. This is a pretty penny being saved on these kits and having the ability to fulfill a bit earlier is a refreshing change in the face of some group buys that have rather prolonged histories.

On a personal note, I own and use this gear. This stuff is built to last. You're going to have a blast using this kit.

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Thanks Phil, btw I didn't get a confirmation after submitting the form, should I resubmit?

 

[Josh Tyron]

Thanks for putting this together Phil!

Phil, do you run into any rotation limits with the Weapon on the sled? I am interested in using this for some under slung work that will need the camera to point straight down and pan back up to level.

Brian, can you tell me what the max speed is with the motors that come with the ST4? Are there plans for higher speed options? Is it possible to add a second motor to control zoom as well as focus on the lens?

Thanks Guys!

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks Phil, btw I didn't get a confirmation after submitting the form, should I resubmit?

Did it look like it submitted correctly? I'll ask Brian, I'm not involved with order processing of course.

Thanks for putting this together Phil!

Phil, do you run into any rotation limits with the Weapon on the sled? I am interested in using this for some under slung work that will need the camera to point straight down and pan back up to level.

Brian, can you tell me what the max speed is with the motors that come with the ST4? Are there plans for higher speed options? Is it possible to add a second motor to control zoom as well as focus on the lens?

Thanks Guys!

Anytime. In terms of underslung to level you'll be fine. I'll let Brian jump in on those other questions.

 

[Mark Mannschreck]

+1 ST4 w/ DD

 

[Tom Hanmer]

Would really like to get in on this group buy but have a few questions that have not been totally answered in the thread. It would be great to hear from anyone with any experience of using this combination.
Watching the films on the emotimo website I am seeing quite a lot of stuttering in the image. I currently live in quite a remote area with very poor internet connection. What I am trying to work out is whether the apparent stutter in the videos is down to my poor internet connection or whether it is produced by the emotimo equipment.
It would be great to hear from anyone who owns or has used the spectrum and danna dolly how smooth they think their footage is. However useful this would be to me I would not be that pleased with it if everything needed to be warp stabilised or equivalent.
Is it able to handle slopes, if so what angle and how much weight? Can it be used with curved track and are there any plans for software or an app where keyframes can be created, ease in and out finessed and saved moves edited etc.

 

[Craig Lees]

Awesome.

How much extra is shipping to U.K.?

Cheers

Craig Lees
UK

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Did it look like it submitted correctly?

Seems so, but as back up, I resubmitted another form

 

[Kyle Jones]

Did we ever get 100% confirmation either way as to whether we can order only the Dana Dolly?

The eMotimo ST4 seems awesome but I just don’t need it for the type of work I do.

Thanks either way!

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

REVIEW!!

REVIEW!!

Would really like to get in on this group buy but have a few questions that have not been totally answered in the thread. It would be great to hear from anyone with any experience of using this combination.

Well....just spent this week in video "moco land" so to speak....so here is my story/review....



As some of you know....I own Cinemilled and I have a new product I needed to shoot some nice product shots for....so I stopped by Hot Rod Cameras in Burbank and I saw a Syrp product turntable thingie...

"I thought, this should do it...."

I was not familiar with Syrp at all.....(at that time never heard of emotimo either.)

They informed me that the turntable was part of a whole moco/timelapse "kit" so on a impulse with little research (never a good thing) I bought the whole 3 axis syrp kit and the turntable.


Went home and went dove right in....watch a bunch of tutorial videos....etc...

The packaging was nice and the product design very slick. Not bad.....

setup the slider did a few timelapses of the sky in my backyard with my D4....worked well enough....put an angle on the slider track and it slid down fine but was not able to climb. Tired a vertical shot with a counterbalance and that worked fine. I can see potential here....

First impressions.....it's LOUD! it's SLOW !!

it quickly dawned on me that the syrup works fine for stills and was never really intended for video. apparent once you realize the product design and layout.

The iphone app used to control the device was fine but boy do I hate bluetooh. Worked thru some bluetooh frustrations and it would connect most of the time but sometimes it would bug out.


Setup my first video shot.....a "ping pong" slider shot with a counter pan motion......this is where it starts to fall apart....it's a pain to program and get the pan just right.....next thing I noticed....tons of camera wobble/shake. humm.....not looking good.

Did a test with my LAV mic and yes the LAV picked up the motor noise loud and clear........so I guess that kills that use. (even though they show a video of interview in thier promo videos....altough outdoors)

So I gave up on that.

Then I tried a dolly push in with a 85mm nikon lens I was using on my Panasonic EVA.

-top speed too slow
-shake wobble......going slower helped but then it was way too slow for video
-focus

i hooked up my cmotion and tried my best to pull focus on the shot down to min. focus on the 85 and boy did I struggle!!


All in all.....it just all reinforced what was apparent. The syrp system is best used for timelapses using small cameras/dslr. If you have a scarlet or a Eva like me even that is just too big to get anything usuable. I really dont want to come down hard on thier product it just really isn't really designed or intended for video. Seam like the video "mode" was more of an after thought that might work for some people doing low paid work. But if you just want a light portable timelaps still system? I think its a great choice for the price.

But if you want faster precision video shots? It's just the wrong tool.

As you can see it builds so that camera is super tall....lots of leverage and all of a sudden you have a teeter totter effect.

>>>>next day....



I carefully packed everything up and went back to return it, that when I ran into Jordan at Hotrod (he was not there when I bought the syrp) and he showed me the emotimo system. Luckily they had a dana dolly and a demo unit there in the store. Jordan gave me a quick demo and I was sold.

Right away I quickly realized this is what I needed all along. Even though I will be doing some timelapse work, Video will be the majority of the use for me. Immediately I noticed a few things

- Can be pretty Quiet.
- Can be pretty fast.
- Focus keyframing
- easy and confortable setup with the ps4 controller. Since if the unit is on the ground you can setup everything standing up and you dont have to use buttons on the unit. Plus all the features like using the ps4 analogue buttons to adjust focus etc.... The ps4controller really just speeds up setup time.


So I put down an order and borrowed thier demo unit to finish off my shoot until my unit arrived.

I took some mathews slider stands, the dana dolly and the demo st4 system home.

I quickly just took my EVA (2.6lbs body only) with all my wooden camera gak and the rear AB plate and battery and thew it on there...

Setup my first ping pong shot and it was super fast and super easy to get setup.

-Noticed quite a bit of wobble ....still....hummm

Realized with the wooden camera baseplate the camera was very tall. and the rear AB batt making it heavier/longer than it needed to be.

So I figued ok, just need to de-rig the camera a bit.

I took off the wooden camera baseplate system, bolted to directly to bottom of camera now. Removed the rear AB battery. This lowered the CG and the length/leverage etc....

Most of the camera shake was gone.....but I could still notice it. (keep in mind I am on a 85mm lens) but for closeup product work I think 50-85mm will be a fairly common choice.

now with a lower CG and less weight.....it definatly helped.

I still was have some image movement during the dolly push in....

I played the move and watched closely..... realized some of it was coming from the dana dolly.....rather the stands.

So the stands are key. While I was using quality mathews slider stands....basically they mount form the center of the track....a better sollution would be to support from each side of the track......just like we do with real dolly track! Not to mention maybe some support halfway...

I then added a bunch of sand bags to the stands, I put a small sand bag on the mitchell base also. Right next to the st4 base.

The sand bags helped and the shot got more stable.


Then I noticed where some of the image movement was coming from......my nikon lenses and my f-to-ef adaptor..... noticed that when the focus motor would turn it would shift the lens a bit..... this also explained (after review of footage) why my focus was a bit soft thru the run.... basically due to the shift it would throw off the focus keyframes just enough to be a bit soft.

ok so as I fine tuned my setup now I realized my nikons were not going to cut it. I needed a quality PL or native EF mount lens.


>>>>> The next day I rented a 50mm Xeen from Hot rod.

.....yes....the lens made a huge difference!

The long focus throw and sharpness of the Xeen kept the focus tack sharp the whole way in (like the emotimo demo video).....and the shot also got that much more stable.

Looks like the small shift in the lens mount of the Nikon was causing some of the apparent image movement.


All that said, footage was now usable. BUT I can still see some vibrations/shake. Very slight but they are there. More as you speed up.

I did a quick stabilize of the footage in FCPX and it was able to clean it up so that the shot was perfectly stable.

I think some of the stability issues stem from mounting, mounting of the unit, and of the camera L-braket, small arca swiss connection etc..

I feel some Cinemilled solutions on the way to possibly improve this more for us "video" users. :smile5:


-The other issue I had is with the belt.

belt tension is tricky over a longish run ( i forget how long my run was but maybe 4')

It's not a problem going slower....but as I experimented and sped up my shot I would hear a noise like the belt slipped! and it would throw off the keyframes and the dolly would crash at the end of the move into the end of the track or when resetting.

then I tried again applying a tensioning force to the belt and it improved. So there is room for improvement here.

I feel some Cinemilled solutions on the way :smile5:

upon further investigation...I dont think it's the belt slipping (as mechanically its hard to do) I think it's the motor kinda "clutching out" somehow on hard acceleration. I dont know enough about the motor to be able to speakk to this but I know belt tension did help. But slip would still occur at higher speeds.

i would love to do shots at top speed so I can do some 60-120fps shots of a beer pour for example while pivoting with background parallax etc...

As video users we are very interested in higher speeds and independent control of ramp up or ramp down curves. I couldn't figure out how to change the ramp up/ramp down independently.....maybe there is a way?



-----------------------------

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

All in all I was REALLY stoked when Hot Rod called me today and told my due to some luck my ST4 system was dropped off today at the store by the emotimo guys who were in town by chance. So I returned my demo unit and pickup my kit.


I have to say I think for the money we are talking about here the system is far superior to the syrp and others out there for video work, there is no doubt.

I'm sure I will love it for dslr timelapse work also.....I have no worries there. I feel very good about the value I got for the cost of the unit.

I love how I don't have to deal with my iphone/bluetooth, super easy to program and start shooting.

I love how robust and solid the system feels

I love how it's inspiring me to explore a whole new realm of shots.

I do think there is some room for improvement in the stability/rigidity of the camera mount and the base mount itself. The arca swiss standard is just too small (never been a fan, fine for photo, too small for video) in my opinion and this is where a lot of the issues may be coming from stability wise. Just not enough surface area to provide more stability especially in faster moves higher payloads generate more forces on everything.

Keep in mind my panasonic is 2.5lbs and generally lighter than a raven or red setup!


I am in a unique position to use a product and and be able to improve it like I have with other products cinemilled services....


I am happy with my purchase of the st4 and my first "shoot" with it. I do look forward to fine tuning my setup and getting even better results I know it is capable of. I am sure as I go deeper using it I will improve my shots and maybe with a few nights in the machine shop I might be able to make it even better.

I know how hard it is to design a product, then make a product for mass production and then sell and support it. I think Brian and the team over at emotimo did a great job ..... as he points out in one of his videos they were very aware of threading the line between photo/video worlds and needs and being careful not to be a "master of none". It's hard to predict what cameras and what things your customers will do with you product.


I purchased the "run and gun" kit as it will be nice to have a smaller lighter option for when I got into the woods or camping etc.....but also because I think I will just make my own speedrail dolly system......as of course I have my thoughts on making one of those also...maybe something more suited to the st4....would love to figure out a way to do longer runs....maybe something counterbalanced so I can do vertical moves....

anyways....looking forward to the next shoot!

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Great review Pedro thanks.

 

[Phil Holland]

Well said Pedro and happy you're happy with this kit.

I own a fair bit of gear, some Syrp and Kessler stuff, like way OG purchaser in both fronts and still use some of those kits today. But this eMotimo ST4 and Dana Dolly combo is a bit more "on the nose" of being ideal for typical live action work and even general timelapse shooting. It's super fast to setup and quick to program, which really separates it from the pack.

As you've illustrated, some systems place the center of gravity fairly high up with not much triangulation to support a stable run, even if literally on concrete. Some of the strengths of the Dana Dolly are is that it's a bit wider and combats a tilt prone COG to an extent. Additionally they've deployed custom semi-hard wheels, which still have a bit of softness to them. Which means if any sort of spec of sand, dust, pipe imperfection, or something gets on the rails you won't notice it as much. Super hard wheels, it's pretty noticeable. There's a balancing act to be accomplished there. Logically harder would equal better in some ways, but that's not always the case. Also, too soft would provide way to much activity on a move. Wheel density and hardness is sort of a 3 bears thing with sliders in this category.

General advice to however anybody rigs this kit, stands will do you well, but floors vibrate and if you are attempting faster moves you'll see momentum and inertia related things of course. It's pixel accurate when executed well. My best advice is to rig appropriately. Apple boxes are your friends, as are sandbags. Get in and get out, stands work great.

If you've seen my setups over the years, I'm using the Matthews Slider Stands as they are heavier duty. The newer American Grip Dana Dolly stands have a nice platform to assist with where the rail ends connect.

To the GB'rs, still awaiting word on the a Dana Dolly only option, but again this is primarily an eMotimo kit deal. Don't think the basic kit is an option rather than the universal rental kit either, but also still awaiting word there.

 

[Uday Bhaskar Karra]

Hi Phil,

If they allow DD only option... Please add me to the GB list (Just for DD only)

Thanks

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Thanks Pedro, seeing your pictures makes me want get new wheels for my DD...lol. Bought mine 8 years ago and the wheels are now more of VERY dark (almost black) aquatic blue color, but its rocks PERFECTLY!

Looking forward to getting the ST4 and hope it lasts as much as my DD has (in 8 years, I have only replaced the bearings twice) and this is a heavy rental item for me. Like you mentioned, there's always room for improvement, but I certainly hope ST4 would come via upgrade / FW update and not total replacement

@Brian, waiting for confirmation and payment instructions

 

[Bryan Atomburst]

wonder if there is any talk about integrating any control options with Reds; to control ef lens focus, start stop, etc.?

 

[Adam Levins]

Hey Pedro,

Thanks for the detailed review, I use some of your product and they are always well thought out.

I was looking at your DD to ST4 half ball mount and wondering why it looks so big? Is that the 100mm ball on a 75mm receiver? or a 150mm ball on a 100mm receiver? just curious. Adam

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

wonder if there is any talk about integrating any control options with Reds; to control ef lens focus, start stop, etc.?

this would be great since it would allow one motor channel free, to be used for other axes while controlling camera focus with dsmc2 ctrl port!