Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

GROUP BUY: CAME steadycam 2-15kg >1600USD

GROUP BUY: CAME steadycam 2-15kg >1600USD

  • < 1500USD

    Votes: 79 71.2%

  • < 2500USD

    Votes: 20 18.0%

  • < 3500USD

    Votes: 6 5.4%

  • > 3500USD

    Votes: 6 5.4%
  • Total voters
    111
Maybe we can make a list of "must have", "would be nice" and "not really needed" qualities we want to see in a steadicam. We can than forward this list to the manufacturer to change the design.

Must have: dynamic balance, up to 25lbs, easily to adjust sled and arm, comfortable vest, price <2500USD

Would be nice: back mounted vest, carbon, Lemo power, HD-SDI and HDMI, metal box with custom cut foam, price <1500USD

Not really needed: stand,

Cheers
David
 
I'm interested ! And what's a group buy ? :) - do you have a link to a post on this huge thread with the explaining ? It is just like a normal buy except the seller makes a discount because they can sell a big number ?
 
Sebastian_A said:
I'm interested ! And what's a group buy ? :) - do you have a link to a post on this huge thread with the explaining ? It is just like a normal buy except the seller makes a discount because they can sell a big number ?
Click to expand...

Like you wrote, a group buy means that the seller gives a huge discount (or even develops a special product), given that a certain amount of people order it. For example, the seller gives out a coupon code which will than be used buy the buyer, or we send him a list of people who are in the group.
 
David Kellermann said:
Maybe we can make a list of "must have", "would be nice" and "not really needed" qualities we want to see in a steadicam. We can than forward this list to the manufacturer to change the design.

Must have: dynamic balance, up to 25lbs, easily to adjust sled and arm, comfortable vest, price <2500USD

Would be nice: back mounted vest, carbon, Lemo power, HD-SDI and HDMI, metal box with custom cut foam, price <1500USD

Not really needed: stand,

Cheers
David
Click to expand...

I'll reserve my comments on the rig itself, since I haven't actually laid hands on one, though I do see some basic flaws in the engineering, especially of the arm. Mostly this seems to come from some misunderstanding of how the arms they're copying actually work.

Regardless, my real comment here is that going for a back mounted vest in your "group buy" is a BAD idea. First of all, anyone who needs a back mounted vest with a rig as light as you're talking about is undoubtedly operating incorrectly, and is probably doing some pretty significant damage to themselves. The big reason though is that the way a back mounted vest works is to transmit the weight of the rig to the operator's hips, and therefore, the vest has to be appropriately sized to each individual operator's hips. The only well-recognized back mounted vest in the industry (the Klassen, which I own), needs to be custom made for each customer. If you get a "one-size-fits-all" back mounted vest from China, it will no doubt work poorly, hurt the operator, and not do the important things that the back mounted vest does. A front mount vest, on the other hand, is much easier to get right on a one-size-fits-all basis.

Again, I'll be interested to see how any of these Chinese rigs perform when tested by an experienced operator (and I'd even come up to New York to join in on the reviewing action, just for the fun of picking apart the rig), but I will say one thing I've found time and time again when it comes to stabilizers, having flown almost every major brand of rig, spent years designing my own rigs, and spent tens of thousands of my own dollars on buying my dream rig. You do get what you pay for. You may be happy with the trade off, but there really are no free lunches in this industry, regardless of what some may lead you to believe.
 
David Kellermann said:
Maybe we can make a list of "must have", "would be nice" and "not really needed" qualities we want to see in a steadicam. We can than forward this list to the manufacturer to change the design.

Must have: dynamic balance, up to 25lbs, easily to adjust sled and arm, comfortable vest, price <2500USD

Would be nice: back mounted vest, carbon, Lemo power, HD-SDI and HDMI, metal box with custom cut foam, price <1500USD

Not really needed: stand,

Cheers
David
Click to expand...

I'd have to bale if the the weight load went below 33lbs as I need this for stereo filming - so 2 cameras. I'd hope not to minimize the specs.
 
David Kellermann said:
ActionProducts will introduce in two months or so the "Raptor" (first shown at NAB2011), but it will cost roughly the same as a Zephyr. So no cheap unit from them for the group buy.
Click to expand...

Here is Brian Goff Raptor demo at NAB 2011
In video he says price was aimed at $6500 but it probably went 10-12k.
Bargain compared to some. But on micro films for 50-100k it's 10-20% of entire budget.

This groupbuy seems to be on track though.
Just need to find a Chinese company that can make a Swiss watch for cheap.

 
Steve Das said:
Here is Brian Goff Raptor demo at NAB 2011
In video he says price was aimed at $6500 but it probably went 10-12k.
Bargain compared to some. But on micro films for 50-100k it's 10-20% of entire budget.

This groupbuy seems to be on track though.
Just need to find a Chinese company that can make a Swiss watch for cheap.
Click to expand...

This is awesome Steve.. If I could get that quality for $6.5k I much rather do that then risk 1.5K on something I have no idea about. Hopefully this will come out soon and be at that price point.
 
Action Products delivers terrific bang for the buck and would seem like a great option for anyone looking to get into the trade of stabilized operating. Excellent build quality, good materials and a good company. The difference between the AP rig and proper Steadicam would likely be very clear to an experienced flyer but unless I'm missing something I'd expect to be a good trainer at the very least. Just don't imagine that you will become an expert operator quickly, even with a bomber rig. I've worked with some of the top ops in the biz and they bring a highly refined skill set to go with their equipment.

As others have noted a low cost knockoff that can be whipped out for the occasional walk and talk, etc is unlikely to also be a good trainer for a real rig. Really appreciate the note about why a back mounted vest would actually be worse that a front mount if it doesn't fit precisely.

Based on what little we know, I would think anyone looking to fly more than 20 pounds or use it for more than a couple hours at a time is probably expecting too much.

Bottom line - will join the group interested in getting a low cost rig as long as its not going to fall apart in the first couple of months. Even if the stabilization is crude and limited in usage, I can accept that at this price point, That said, if its materials and build quality are crappy then what's the point.

Cheers - #19
 
I can't believe that this many people are considering buying this cheap knockoff of a stabilizer. There is so much that goes into making a stabilizer work properly and reliably, and if you had any experience with this type of equipment, you would know that. Why don't you guys just hire someone with the proper equipment and experience? Don't give me a rant about cost. You all own professional camera equipment, so what, are you buying all this Equipment to shot weddings and home movies? I don't get what's with this race to the bottom mentality.
 
Many of you are waiting for reviews to pull the trigger.... You really need a professional steadicam operator to review it... someone that actually does it for a living.... not a dp that uses a steadicam once in a blue moon.
Without ever operating a professional rig, you have no clue how the arm should act and how the rig should fly, or even what to look for in a quality build, and what is prone to failure on these... Heck, even the guy operating it in the picture trying to sell you the dang thing is holding it wrong.....lmao
It will get hammered into the ground by a professional review.
If you guys have money to burn..knock yourself out... or better yet spend some money on a steadicam class and learn with some quality equipment, as was mentioned.
This is not something you buy and learn by using it a few times.
When that spring breaks, it can send someone to the hospital, and well as smashing that pretty red camera... I hope you are operating with good insurance if you buy one of these... and I have seen springs let go... not pretty.
Even with a pro steadicam you will not get quality shots using it a few times, so dont fool yourself into thinking that is going to happen.

For a majority of you it will be a complete waste of money.....
 
Last edited:
Alan Rencher said:
I can't believe that this many people are considering buying this cheap knockoff of a stabilizer. There is so much that goes into making a stabilizer work properly and reliably, and if you had any experience with this type of equipment, you would know that. Why don't you guys just hire someone with the proper equipment and experience? Don't give me a rant about cost. You all own professional camera equipment, so what, are you buying all this Equipment to shot weddings and home movies? I don't get what's with this race to the bottom mentality.
Click to expand...


I think for the day rate of a steadiop + his 60,000 dollar rig rental.. 1500 would come in about 500 bucks less..
so lots of guys.. including me.. who often shoot their own small.. no budget projects, would rather risk the 1500 and just mess with it and see if it works for quick shots..

the 1500 one time investment might = 3 or 4 projects that would have otherwise cost 10k in hiring an op


that being said.. I once bought the indian steadicam thing.. and it was a total pile...

also.. i tried on the zephyr last year at NAB.. wore it for 2 min.. my back hurt for days..

so I would probably leave it up to a pro.
 
The goals of a review/evaluation for this groups purpose:
1) Does the rig deliver smooth footage
2) Is the rig comfortable to operate for a few hours at a time without an overabundance of aches and pains days later

Honestly, I dont think we need to waste too much time trying to get several reviews. The seller (and the equipment) has already been vouched for by multiple sources, the price/risk is low, and he has a fair return policy. I say we focus on getting the best price leveraging our 100 person group's buying power (and the seller's economies of scale). Let's get an agreement going so we can start putting in orders, and thus start shooting.

Let's not over think this
 
It really depends on your expectations and purposes.

For example, there are a lot of 'bad' steadicam shots in Full Metal Jacket (by design obviously) like this (@51 seconds)


I personally think the dreamy-floaty aesthetic of steadicam is overused and inappropriate in a lot of cases (because it's too convenient to use it as a director). There's another aesthetic you might call 'strangely steady hand held' which is equally valid IMO that you can get from a steadicam.

I've seen novices do very well in very basic situations. It's the outlying cases that separate the men from the boys, at which point you might chose to alter the blocking or go to handheld. Filmmaking is always about working around limitations.

There's also the combination of center-extraction and image tracking stabilisation to get to greater levels of stability.
 
Last edited:
Zakaree Sandberg said:
I think for the day rate of a steadiop + his 60,000 dollar rig rental.. 1500 would come in about 500 bucks less..
so lots of guys.. including me.. who often shoot their own small.. no budget projects, would rather risk the 1500 and just mess with it and see if it works for quick shots..

the 1500 one time investment might = 3 or 4 projects that would have otherwise cost 10k in hiring an op


that being said.. I once bought the indian steadicam thing.. and it was a total pile...

also.. i tried on the zephyr last year at NAB.. wore it for 2 min.. my back hurt for days..

so I would probably leave it up to a pro.
Click to expand...

Like I said, why are people spending so much money on Red cameras if they're just making glorified home movies? If you're getting REAL work, and it calls for a Steadicam, tell the client what it will cost. It's better than losing a client because your "Steadicam" shots all look handheld, or the fiasco that will ensue when the thing breaks down on set.
 
Brett Harrison said:
It really depends on your expectations and purposes.

...I personally think the dreamy-floaty aesthetic of steadicam is overused and inappropriate in a lot of cases (because it's too convenient to use it as a director). There's another aesthetic you might call 'strangely steady hand held' which is equally valid IMO that you can get from a steadicam...

...Don't forget also the rapid development section of the learning curve. If someone practiced for 30 minutes each day they could climb up to perhaps 65 percent of the finesse of a professional operator relatively quickly.
Click to expand...

Most Steadicam shots aren't "dreamy" or "floaty". Most Steadicam shots isolate the viewer from the camera by making the movement less distracting. In most walk-and-talks, you focus on the action and not the camera movement as you might with hand held.

I also like that you just pulled a percentage out of thin air. How do you know what percent of good you were, and how long it would take you to learn enough to make a passable shot? How long would it then take to make a great shot?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top