Great news! A Production Hold.

[Jannard]

It would also be nice if there was a built in safety clip for the RED mount, in order to avoid problems with vibration loosening the mount.

http://www.cinematography.net/Pages DW/ArriPLMountSafety.htm

IBloom

Fixed with the new mount.

Jim

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

My new favorite saying:
"jackleg funksticks"

I thought Jim sold Oakley?

 

[Andrew Benz]

Just think about it in comparison to other companies. With RED a problem was identified less than one week ago. A solution has been implemented and set into motion.

All I can say is Bravo!

IBloom

Oh absolutely Ian... actually I was going to bring up 2 camera companys w/ examples but decided not to go there... it just does not seem sporting.

I have not even paid for my camera yet and it gets better every day. How the hell does that happen? I have paid for a few other camera systems and have had no such luck in getting minor things fixed for free (that was later in the first revision or two). I was even told that was the price that I payed for being one of the first... These actions by the RED team really go beyond anything that I have ever experienced before personally or professionally... it is too stunning for silence. :wink:

Ian on a side note thank you for your redwiki work and I really like your site/reel.--- Cheers - Andrew

My new favorite saying:
"jackleg funksticks"

Thanks RED Guy, please use it! I am full of I am full of insane colloquialisms. My sense of humor has served me well in the USAF and on many a set.:tongue:

I love odd word combinations like "funkstick" and "firewallet".:umm: :wink:

Cheers RED Guy,

Andrew

ps- Jackleg is a real word: jackleg |'jak,leg| noun informal an incompetent, unskillful, or dishonest person : [as adj. ] a jackleg carpenter.

You have to get a little more creative with funkstick...

 

[jbeale]

"jackleg funksticks" sounds to me like poor quality tripod. I have a few of those.

Oakley was sold, but maybe Red rents some space in their cleanrooms?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Obligatory statement:

Yay!!!! The new mount sounds badass.

paint all of it's customers as jackleg funksticks.

Heh. I should put that on a T-shirt.

"Proud to be jackleg funkstick #1110" :usd:

 

[Dexter Gregoire]

I'm happy with this delay. Any possible way when you are ready to start shipping to speed up production to about 600 units a month? There must be people looking for work out there in Cali.

 

[David Cubbage]

I am simply amazed how quick Jim and the Red team jump on problems and solve them as they surface. As an engineer, I can appreciate the manufacturing implications of producing a new adjustable PL mount in stainless steel; you have to admire the resolve of Red. And to top it all, a new board as well; after only 100 cameras in the field. Noise, what noise?
No wonder we become "fanboys", we can't help it when we get treated so well by Red.

Red is a dream to us; but a nightmare to others!

David

 

[Andrew Benz]

Obligatory statement:

Yay!!!! The new mount sounds badass.



Heh. I should put that on a T-shirt.

"Proud to be jackleg funkstick #1110" :usd:

LMAO. All it needs is a RED Buzzsaw emblem!:watsup:

Damn, Jeff... Now, I want one with my number on it! What a polite way to give the haters a middle finger.:bleh:

Cheers,

Andrew

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I appreciate that Jim, finally you realized that it has lack of dynamic range..... Take your time on improving, I sure don't want mine 'till everything are taken care. How about the heating issues?

Every camera under the sun has "lack of dynamic range". We've just been able to improve DR still further under certain conditions, and are putting a board in the camera to handle that. The DR of the camera as it is now is very respectable - you've seen the threads on measuring it, so no need to repeat that here.

Heating issues have not been around since we found that the temperature sensor was giving way too early a warning....

Graeme

 

[Casey Green]

Thanks for the update, Jim. Sounds well worth the wait. Also, good to hear you are all keeping safe.

One question:

Will these changes be implemented in time for the re-scheduled Nov. LART?

 

[Trevor Meier]

OK, now I'm pissed

OK, now I'm pissed

I'm #182.... and now one week before beginning shipping, another one-month delay... announced via the boards, with (still) no personal communication from RED.

I'm happy to get new features in the end but RED's lack of communication f's up my next three months. I had planned some showcases for the camera alongside what I'm doing... an interview with a nation's President, a personal short, a trip to Africa, a DI and filmout, demoing the footage for DP's in a grading theatre, and some NDA-covered projects... and let's not mention the bad timing for buzz or rental income for us earlier numbers.

I willingly signed up for a 'flexible' development schedule. I even planned 6-months of flex time into RED's original release dates... but that wasn't enough. And all I get from RED is a quick reply from Kelly saying "we'll let you know in a week." That was three weeks ago.

If you just hang out on this board, you get plenty of news. But anybody trying to do real work is getting shafted by RED's lack of communication.

I'm pissed... not by the new features or even really the delay, but by RED's ineffectiveness at communicating basic information to paying, working customers.

 

[Jiri Bakala]

Hey Trevor, calm down... Red is a new product and anybody who signed in has to be prepared for major changes and delays. Heck, it might have not even happen at all... Now, they have a major fire burning right behind their bulding, which could have (and still might) impact the delivery schedule even further. I am surprised that it hasn't yet. I wouldn't plan to use the camera until it's in my hands - and you should do the same.

Not to mention that they advertise that all the time:
"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

 

[Charles Adams]

Trevor, isn't checking this forum easier or just as easy as checking an email account?

Jim and Red have been all over these boards with comments and announcements. Very easy to find latest updates and takes the same amount of time to check your email. You don't have to stick around or read any more posts than you need to. Just find those started by Jannard which are always at the top and have the most views.

Second, why would you schedule a camera that you do not yet have? Even though there is a shipping schedule, it was clearly and frequently said that things will slip and move and change. This is like telling a movie producer that you have Al Pacino on board with a script you wrote and will be ready to shoot when in fact you haven't even spoken to Mr. Pacino yet. Dangerous.

We all want our cameras - my colleague has a much earlier number than yours, in fact so close after the 100 mark it hurts - but unless I'm mistaken we only put down $1,000 for a deposit, for a right to reserve this camera. I would be more upset if we paid the full $17,500 amount plus accessories but we didn't.

You may request a refund plus interest at any time.

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

I'm not Trevor, but:

Trevor, isn't checking this forum easier or just as easy as checking an email account?

No. Not at all. An e-mail account can be synced to a personal handheld device, Outlook, or other mail tools, and is often checked by professionals during the day for all of their business purposes. To expect busy professionals to surf the web, seeking out information that should be coming to them directly is, I have to agree, a little absurd.

Jim and Red have been all over these boards with comments and announcements.

The operative word often being "all over". Jim's gotten better about creating a new thread for major announcements, but there's still often important information in unassuming threads, buried among the responses.

Very easy to find latest updates and takes the same amount of time to check your email.

As I mentioned above, the difference is that checking one's e-mail is something you would be doing ANYWAY. To be expected to check in on this site daily or even several times daily to find out information that should be sent out via mailing list (which they do have, I've gotten messages through it and been glad for them), that's a little unrealistic.

Second, why would you schedule a camera that you do not yet have? Even though there is a shipping schedule, it was clearly and frequently said that things will slip and move and change. This is like telling a movie producer that you have Al Pacino on board with a script you wrote and will be ready to shoot when in fact you haven't even spoken to Mr. Pacino yet. Dangerous.

But in the context of your analogy, he HAS spoken to Mr. Pacino, and Mr. Pacino signed a letter of intent and was ready to roll...then rescheduled...then rescheduled. Then rescheduled again.

And that's not even Trevor's beef, because Mr. Pacino has had perfectly good reasons to reschedule, and Mr. Pacino is still the best for the role. Trevor's beef is that Mr. Pacino has seen fit to announce his rescheduling in Variety, the Hollywood Reporter, and his personal blog, but not to drop Trevor a direct e-mail letting him know that he's said anything at all, let alone what he's been saying.

We all want our cameras - my colleague has a much earlier number than yours, in fact so close after the 100 mark it hurts - but unless I'm mistaken we only put down $1,000 for a deposit, for a right to reserve this camera. I would be more upset if we paid the full $17,500 amount plus accessories but we didn't.

You may request a refund plus interest at any time.

Don't hold up a straw man over this. We all want the camera, and he's not saying that the delays aren't acceptable or that the upgrades aren't beneficial. His objection is merely that important notices like this are posted to Reduser.net (many members of which aren't even reservation holders) and not to a mailing list that already exists (many members of which probably don't post here).

RED's policy of open and honest communication with the public is great, but to uphold that at the expense of your paying customers, by posting on a message board and not alerting the reservation holders directly, well, it's a little disrespectful. Because even if the deposit was only $1000, that's $1000 more than some of the people here were willing (or able) to wager, and for that kind of faith you'd think they at least deserve a small heads-up.

It wouldn't take that much more effort for someone to at least send out an e-mail saying there's an "important announcement" with a link to the thread. They've done it before.

I don't personally have a problem with the delays either, and I check Reduser fairly regularly so it's not that bad for me. But I can understand Trevor's frustration.

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

............. :waaa:

All I can say.

 

[Jannard]

I'm #182.... and now one week before beginning shipping, another one-month delay... announced via the boards, with (still) no personal communication from RED.

I'm happy to get new features in the end but RED's lack of communication f's up my next three months. I had planned some showcases for the camera alongside what I'm doing... an interview with a nation's President, a personal short, a trip to Africa, a DI and filmout, demoing the footage for DP's in a grading theatre, and some NDA-covered projects... and let's not mention the bad timing for buzz or rental income for us earlier numbers.

I willingly signed up for a 'flexible' development schedule. I even planned 6-months of flex time into RED's original release dates... but that wasn't enough. And all I get from RED is a quick reply from Kelly saying "we'll let you know in a week." That was three weeks ago.

If you just hang out on this board, you get plenty of news. But anybody trying to do real work is getting shafted by RED's lack of communication.

I'm pissed... not by the new features or even really the delay, but by RED's ineffectiveness at communicating basic information to paying, working customers.

I would be very happy to send you back your deposit with interest. Just let me know.

What part of "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." did you not understand? The decision was made today. I posted today. You responded today. Seems like effective communication to me?

Jim

 

[number6]

I would be very happy to send you back your deposit with interest. Just let me know.


Jim

Sounds like a man holding a ROYAL FLUSH! I'M sure not going to call.

 

[Craig Bowman]

Anyone in Canada should be thanking their lucky stars for these delays. Since the first one started back in May our dollar has risen more than ten cents and as of today was sitting above $1.03 U.S.

 

[Darren Orange]

True That

True That

The decision was made today. I posted today. You responded today. Seems like effective communication to me?

Agreed Jim!

 

[Charles Adams]

DorkmanScott, you've raised some excellent points. However, please consider my responses below:

No. Not at all. An e-mail account can be synced to a personal handheld device, Outlook, or other mail tools, and is often checked by professionals during the day for all of their business purposes. To expect busy professionals to surf the web, seeking out information that should be coming to them directly is, I have to agree, a little absurd.

No one is expecting this of anyone. But because we have only placed a reservation on this camera - and not actually purchased it for the full amount - to what extent is the manufacturer, Red, responsible to those who have placed a reservation? True, the camera has been a long time coming. True, we put some money down. But they have been open and frank from the beginning.

Is Red expected to handhold everyone? Does Sony tell you what their plans are a year from now? I would understand if we purchased the camera and we received bad service, but we have not purchased and we have not received bad service. In my opinion we're getting excellent service so far.

The operative word often being "all over". Jim's gotten better about creating a new thread for major announcements, but there's still often important information in unassuming threads, buried among the responses.

And important information for other products are frequently buried in manuals, in online tutorials, and on other websites. Sorry, but getting information is not always easy. You reserve a cutting edge camera from a company that has never produced a camera before, then get mad when information is not always easily available for this new technology?

As I mentioned above, the difference is that checking one's e-mail is something you would be doing ANYWAY. To be expected to check in on this site daily or even several times daily to find out information that should be sent out via mailing list (which they do have, I've gotten messages through it and been glad for them), that's a little unrealistic.

I agree with you here in some respects. Perhaps Red could have one of their customer sales representatives mail out to the reservation holders any major announcements like this one about the hold.

But you have to admit this is a new business model that Red is working with in the sense that they have been so open to communicate on a forum. And truthfully, it takes two minutes. Two minutes. Pull up Red in browser, check Red One. Any posts by Jannard? Nope? Move on.

But in the context of your analogy, he HAS spoken to Mr. Pacino, and Mr. Pacino signed a letter of intent and was ready to roll...then rescheduled...then rescheduled. Then rescheduled again.

And that's not even Trevor's beef, because Mr. Pacino has had perfectly good reasons to reschedule, and Mr. Pacino is still the best for the role. Trevor's beef is that Mr. Pacino has seen fit to announce his rescheduling in Variety, the Hollywood Reporter, and his personal blog, but not to drop Trevor a direct e-mail letting him know that he's said anything at all, let alone what he's been saying.

A-ha! But Mr. Pacino did not actually sign anything, and in this game, without that signature, then it is fair game. What Mr. Pacino did say was that "things change" and that he was interested but that he would have to see about his schedule. He would love to go to work for you but he only has a tentative date, which he has said so from the very beginning.

And as far as rescheduling via the trades, this is not true. Al Pacino has an agent. The agent talks on behalf of Mr. Pacino. Red has an agent. Reduser is Red's agent. These Reduser forums speak on behalf of Red and even better: unlike trades, they respond, and respond quickly. Check out Jannard's post above! Minutes after Trevor's...

Don't hold up a straw man over this. We all want the camera, and he's not saying that the delays aren't acceptable or that the upgrades aren't beneficial. His objection is merely that important notices like this are posted to Reduser.net (many members of which aren't even reservation holders) and not to a mailing list that already exists (many members of which probably don't post here).

RED's policy of open and honest communication with the public is great, but to uphold that at the expense of your paying customers, by posting on a message board and not alerting the reservation holders directly, well, it's a little disrespectful. Because even if the deposit was only $1000, that's $1000 more than some of the people here were willing (or able) to wager, and for that kind of faith you'd think they at least deserve a small heads-up.

It wouldn't take that much more effort for someone to at least send out an e-mail saying there's an "important announcement" with a link to the thread. They've done it before.

I don't personally have a problem with the delays either, and I check Reduser fairly regularly so it's not that bad for me. But I can understand Trevor's frustration.

I see your point. But only to a certain degree. I still think anyone who is unhappy should go buy a Sony instead then.