Great Dialogue Audio

[Damian Grady]

I'm hoping someone can answer this ...

How do US TV Series (Castle, Mentalist etc) get such pristine and clear audio when recording dialogue between characters. Surely it's not all done with a boom or ADR?

I have a Sennheiser MK416 which I use on a boom but I can never seem to get that same quality of sound without it having that 'roomy' sound.

Any tips would be very much appreciated.

 

[ericyoung]

Sennheiser 416 is a fine microphone - still being made despite newer Sennheiser designs because of it's solid reliable performance in all weather conditions (not waterproof though!). It's great in large spaces and outdoors.

However, its interference tube design is not the very best choice for small reverberant rooms, especially with low ceilings because out of phase reflections compromise the interference directionality and the rear lobe on its polar response picks up reflections from nearby ceilings or walls.

You can use lavalier mics which will have much less ambient sound, or choose a different boom mic - which is a huge subject, with as many opinions as sound recordists and recording situations!

If I wasn't broke and needing to buy other gear, I'd probably buy the Sanken CS-3e (non-interference tube design) as an all rounder. Maybe the Schoeps CMIT5U (although it seems prone to humidity sensitivity).

Have a look at these links, amongst thousands out there:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html
http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/9030-sanken-sennheiser-or-neumann-shotguns/
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/477209-sanken-cs-3e-magic-mic.html
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?119226-Sanken-CS3-vs-MKH-416
http://www.lavideofilmmaker.com/location-sound-recording/location-sound-recording-shotgun-microphone-placement.html

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Yep - Sanken CSe -3. That is a great microphone with a innovative design. Sounds really good and has excellent off axis rejection.

 

[jimhare]

You also have to consider talented and expensive sound post. My guess is it doesn't come of the recorder sounding as good.

 

[Robert Hart]

Having the soundmen who do nothing else with their worklives on the job helps. Actors who can actually speak coherently and choose to do so help. It is an amazing delight to observe actors who can raise their level but still sound like they are talking softly when all else fails because of a given environment. Directors and actors who respect soundcraft help. Respecting the sound downstream of the shoot certainly helps. A good set of ears on the audience can't hurt either. One of the frustrating things for me is observing the increasingly widespread and insidious development of speech patterns and accents more commonly associated with hearing loss.

The reduced bandwidth of digital sound in entertainment can come in for its share along with the lion's piece of the pie going to the microblasters people have hiss-hiss-hissing in their luggholes as they walk past or sit alongside you in the trains. What they don't hear they don't say. Some younger actors I have encountered do not have good diction. If they don't say it, the recorder can't record it. So the cycle shall continue. The next human evolution will be speech which sounds like it has been delivered through fourteen woolen socks with a lot more facial expression and gesture to compensate.

 

[Doug Beatty]

Having experienced mixers, boom ops, and utilities working on set is key to getting a fat "negative" on the day. In the hands of professional dialogue editors is when dialogue gets juiced in post. Kinda like handing your locked picture off to a colorist so he can match shots and grade the image rather than using the dailies in your final edit.

There are a million other factors like having access to sound stages and directors that understand they need to block their shots with boom ops in mind when making shot decisions (rare). Even with all of this in mind, I still hear wireless hits and ruffles on walk and talks on multi million dollar syndicated shows.

I always keep in mind something my high school baseball coach would harp on: "Remember the 6 P's: Proper preparation prevents piss poor performance."

 

[Christopher Mills]

While I can tell you the brands of mic of many of these shows.. and of recorder, and in some cases where post happened..
Marc W may be better able to tell you more about it..

However..
An experienced mixer, focusing on what each situation needs, will give you the raw material your dialog editor and sound designer need to have great sound.

Now, I visit a LOT of sets in my capacity of EPK sound person.. and in the last month I have had the pleasure of a good indie feature, which had ISO wireless with sanken and trams lavs, while simultaneously using Neumann shotguns, and Sennheiser hypercardioid (MKH50s) for booms.. sounded GREAT.. recording on sound devices recorder..

A tv movie with Zaxcom Deva (I own one) fed by Sanken CS3 and Schoeps 641... and ubiquitous Sanken lavs on lectro txs..

A top of the line TV series boomed with Schoeps CMIT, and a new Digital Super CMIT (astounding AES mic).. and minimal to no wireless.. with MAJOR actors.

earlier in the year.. worked with a production unit that did not actually mix... and this is another major syndicated show.. wires to isos, and a boom just for dailies..
this one needs a HUGE amount of work in post.. and did not give me a decent sounding feed for BTS clips..

Surprisingly, the MAJOR star one with almost no wires.. but a superb mixer, and boom team equaled the indie with experienced but great mixer and boom team with wireless included..
NO, I won't post which shows these are, but if you pm me, I will discuss..

 

[Marc Wielage]

I find 50% is just finding a quiet location to shoot in, and then about 40% is putting the microphone in the right place. And then 10% (or more!) is having the skill set to know how to solve problems on location.

I agree with many of the above comments. A 416 is a good mic under certain circumstances, but it may not be the ideal mic for indoor use. There are numerous discussions on mic selection on the JWSound group. In truth, though, microphones are kind of like lenses: buying the same lens that Roger Deakins uses will probably not give you his expertise in cinematography.

 

[Mark Phelan]

I find 50% is just finding a quiet location to shoot in, and then about 40% is putting the microphone in the right place. And then 10% (or more!) is having the skill set to know how to solve problems on location.

I agree with many of the above comments. A 416 is a good mic under certain circumstances, but it may not be the ideal mic for indoor use. There are numerous discussions on mic selection on the JWSound group. In truth, though, microphones are kind of like lenses: buying the same lens that Roger Deakins uses will probably not give you his expertise in cinematography.

No truer words were ever spoken. EXACTLY!

 

[Kirk.Attard]

Would you guys please guide me to a combination of mics.

I am interested in the sanken 3 for bassier "richer" vocals but I would also be interested in a counter mic to counter the other spectrum on the othe channel. Maybe to catch other sounds other than vocals during the action. If at all necessary - Or should I go for the same type of mics?

Thanks for the advise

 

[Rob Castiglione]

For a more "accurate" sound think Schoeps - if money is not a problem get their shotgun mic. They did not make a shotgun mic for a long time but they got it right. Indoors, the Schoeps MK 41 which I also love.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I am interested in the sanken 3 for bassier "richer" vocals but I would also be interested in a counter mic to counter the other spectrum on the othe channel. Maybe to catch other sounds other than vocals during the action. If at all necessary - Or should I go for the same type of mics?

There is no simple answer. It's kind of like asking "what kind of car should I buy?" or "what kind of lenses are best for my camera?" It's not that easy.

For a lot of modern shoots, there are occasions where you need to wire up every speaking actor with wireless lavs. Les Miserables recently did this with DPA mics and Lectrosonics wireless transmitters, and just won the Oscar for best sound. And yet some of the greatest movies ever made were recorded with one microphone, usually a high-quality condensor like a Schoeps or a Sennheiser.

Again, it's more about the artistry in using the equipment... not about the equipment itself. Skill and experience will give you the ability to know which microphones will work in a given situation. I worry more about how well the microphones match with each other when I have to use multiple microphones in a scene. And I also worry about the acoustics of where we're shooting, and also whether the boom op will be able to get in and get close to the actors.

 

[dio Zafi]

For low budget...ADR everything

 

[Marc Wielage]

Naaaa, ADR is not the answer, either. It's possible to get great sound on location if you have a good sound mixer, a good location, good equipment, and a crew who understands what's necessary in the specific location.

Many, many times, directors prefer the original sound on location because the actor has the real emotion and intensity of the character in that place and setting. When you try to come back six months later and do it in a VO booth, it's not the same. It can still be good -- Johnny Depp is a good example of an actor who's looped quite a few of his performances (like in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies) -- but it's always better to get the dialogue right the first time.

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

I have a Sennheiser MK416 which I use on a boom but I can never seem to get that same quality of sound without it having that 'roomy' sound.

Mr Grady, ( sorry, couldn't resist
MKH416 is a good shotgun mmicrophone, and as it was already mentioned, it does well outdoors, or very wide shots; but when indoors and sound reflection is much worse, a shotgun will always pickup more ambient noise just due to design of it's pattern;
super/hypercardioids like Schoeps MK41, Sennheiser MKH50, AT4053b, Audix SCX1 HC, or Oktava MK-012 are the most common choices for the interior dialogue,
this info might be helpful.

 

[Arnold F.]

Please forgive this observation because I sincerely think it may be the best way to answer your question in a broader way. Asking what sound gear to buy in a camera forum is exactly the same as an audio guy going to an audio forum and asking other audio guys which camera, lenses, tripod, filters, mattebox, etc. he should buy in order to get a show that looks like Mad Men.

I don't wish to discourage you but if you wish to be a camera operator and also achieve quality audio like you've referenced then you'll need someone doing the audio for you, just as an audio guy who wanted to shoot Mad Men would need a camera guy. There's no way around it, I'm afraid.

Apart from that, if you have any specific gear questions for reasons other than trying to do two jobs, PM me and I'll do my best to help!

Would you guys please guide me to a combination of mics.

I am interested in the sanken 3 for bassier "richer" vocals but I would also be interested in a counter mic to counter the other spectrum on the othe channel. Maybe to catch other sounds other than vocals during the action. If at all necessary - Or should I go for the same type of mics?

Thanks for the advise

 

[Wil Wong]

Hey Arnold,

I would agree but then again, many of us also edit. We also market. We rent. So, I don't think it harms to ask what tools sound folks use. We may or may not be the one operating it but we might be the one renting or buying the equipment. I don't think anyone disagrees that having a sound guy/gal would be great. So what equipment should they have... it's the same question. Simply comes down to what equipment would make great sound and what are people using (based on the notion that there are more then one answer and nothing is really right or wrong).

 

[Arnold F.]

Editing is a perfect example, thank you. You can't shoot and edit at the same time in exactly the same way you can't mix and shoot at the same time.

I totally agree it does no harm to ask questions nor would I (or have I) suggested that it does - it's why we're all here and it's why I was careful to answer the question honestly and accurately.

There is nothing that stops the camera guy from renting audio gear for a shoot in exactly the same way that there is nothing that stops the audio guy from renting the camera gear for a shoot. The PM can put together the make-up kit, the MUA can rent all the lights, the grip can choose all the food. That said, it has been my experience that each department head be responsible for the stuff in their department, including the rentals for it.

It's possible I misunderstood the OP's question. If the question was 'what exact gear is used on shows x, y and z?' then I would suggest contacting the mixers on those shows. One could also join jwsound.net and ask there. The mixers from those shows might also be members or the mixers there might have a good idea.

Rock on!

Hey Arnold,

I would agree but then again, many of us also edit. We also market. We rent. So, I don't think it harms to ask what tools sound folks use. We may or may not be the one operating it but we might be the one renting or buying the equipment. I don't think anyone disagrees that having a sound guy/gal would be great. So what equipment should they have... it's the same question. Simply comes down to what equipment would make great sound and what are people using (based on the notion that there are more then one answer and nothing is really right or wrong).

 

[Marc Wielage]

There is nothing that stops the camera guy from renting audio gear for a shoot in exactly the same way that there is nothing that stops the audio guy from renting the camera gear for a shoot.

That's true, but: it stomps on the other guy trying to make a living. I think it's bad for different departments to cross-pollinate this way. As far as I'm concerned, the camera department has enough grief on their hands worrying about generators, grip gear, lighting, cables, camera mounts, lenses, and the camera itself.

Hiring experienced people to do the job well is always the best way to go. I'd rather hire an editor to edit, rather than hire a DP who also knows how to edit. To me, you almost always get better results when you hire specialists who do one thing very well. (And yet I speak as a guy who does a couple of different things... only not at the same time.)

 

[Arnold F.]

This is my point exactly. If I were a mixer on a project and found out the camera guy was responsible for choosing and renting my equipment, I would think something was very wrong. Same in reverse. Anyway, I feel we're way off topic, for which I apologize.

That's true, but: it stomps on the other guy trying to make a living. I think it's bad for different departments to cross-pollinate this way. As far as I'm concerned, the camera department has enough grief on their hands worrying about generators, grip gear, lighting, cables, camera mounts, lenses, and the camera itself.

Hiring experienced people to do the job well is always the best way to go. I'd rather hire an editor to edit, rather than hire a DP who also knows how to edit. To me, you almost always get better results when you hire specialists who do one thing very well. (And yet I speak as a guy who does a couple of different things... only not at the same time.)