Got weapon flipped handle forward.

[Björn Benckert]

We need some words from Red about this... all I can see is that wider batteries can't attach and the Red Bricks don't fit with the top handle.



Do you have any Red Bricks?

What are those wide batteries?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Check this out. The XL module has a little windows where you can see the locking mechanism move when you push the release button, and not only that the interior mechanics has that dont step here kind of graphics on them. And not only that, its also a far better build than the Epic XL module. This weapon XL module is built like a tank, all aluminium I think, where as the old one was pretty much all plastic and rattled a bit.

And according to my little testings it seams like my XL bats runs just fine. So does my XL charger and they last pretty freaking long even with my bolt and Fstop sucking juice from them. Makes me think that I should buy a couple more XL´s. On Dragon I though they lasted too short and I had problems charging when daring them. That seams to be solved with weapon.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

What are those wide batteries?

Like these, like blueshape. It's just an estimate, but the connections at the right of the V-lock plate seem to be in the way of wider batteries. As for Red Bricks, if they attach with the connection in line with the bottom of the v-lock plate, it will not fit with the top handle. If anything, Red should design their V-lock plate to enable their own Red Bricks to be used with the top handle. Right now, it seems like their own equipment won't fit it's own design. I really want to use the top handle, but I'm afraid that it's going to be impossible, and I've not heard a word from Red about this design and if Red bricks, top handle and the V-lock plate even works together, only that I should use the battery belt clip which isn't going to happen. There has to be a setup with v-lock and top handle that works, right now there's just some weird solutions like sawing off the top handle length, changing it to front facing (making it impractical when shooting or detaching it completely) etc. I'd rather have a setup that I can work with than temporary or bad solutions that isn't really that practical.

Here's the problem I have with the current V-lock and top handle. Also, with a shorter handle, how would you fit your hand on the handle during shooting?

You need to build out the camera on the back side in order to be able to fit a Red Brick on weapon. And no, I will not switch to the non-industry standard XL-batteries, the V-locks should be the primary standard to work with the camera.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I agree Vlock is no doubt a better choice if going for just one power solution. But for some reason RED gives us a XL module in the upgrade and for that setup the handle fits like a glove.

I doubt that the Bricks cover the ports ordinate fit, it would be strange if RED did not test the Vlock modules with their own batteries. The handle is one option there is the little handle that fit in between the battery and screen. And one could think that the Vlock module could be hanging down a bit to give the camera a lower profile but possibly they want to keep the blow out clear in the back. Any how there is ways to do it...

not using the handle is one option. works just the same. You also then get a lot of room for other stuff on the little space there is on the camera. Second option is to flip it forward. If you use any longer lenses that puts everything in better balance. Then the screen can sit on the DP side or screw on the back with the Lemo B connector or sit on a noga or mount to the screw holes of the handle.... Kind of hard to fit big handle, battery and screen onto of such a small space.

And the width I´m guessing no problem, see pick:

 

[Les Hillis]

hmm...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ndle-forward&p=1586160&viewfull=1#post1586160

So, it looks like the longer top-handles won't fit even with the spacing provided by the Movcam V-Lock module.

Nevermind, I'm sure it'll all get sorted out somehow.


Edited my previous post to clarify I couldn't find the picture I thought I saw of a V-lock blocking the ports on the DSMC2 I/O module and that it was probably a picture of another battery and mount type.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Aha, did not know about that one thought it was two versions of the red V-lock module.

The hot swap box thing I dont get. To me it´s far more convenient to have a D-tap to To AC lemocable and just put that on a third battery that is only used while swapping. Or does it not even work to use such cable on the fresh battery coming in and remove the cable with the new battery is in place? As to put that extra size on the camera. which that module comes with does not seem to be the best option just to be able to hot swap if you ask me.

We used the "suicide cable" technique for years. But ... if you don't pull the cable off fast enough after your fresh battery is on - you can blow stuff up depending on the config. It's fine IF you are a ninja and know what you are doing - but when your job depends on keeping gear running and zero down time - and you can get fired on a dime - not the best idea in the long run IMO.

The MOVECAM hotswap solutions appears to be a battery plate that fits onto an existing battery module.

It gets smaller if the hotswap re-chargeable battery is inside an actual battery module that connects correctly to the camera or module

 

[Les Hillis]

Okay, so we need a volunteer with a Weapon and a V-Lock I/O module to find out how long it takes to blow up their camera and/or battery while feeding it power through the V-lock and DC power inputs...:yikes:

Or, is there some other way to find out what's safe and what isn't, besides using the purpose-built modules?

What about having an AC to DC power adapter plugged into the DC-in port and a V-lock attached at the same time? Surely the camera side of the equation would be able to handle that? Which would suggest hot-swapping via a cable alone would just be dependent on the battery/ies being able to handle the switching of the load.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm only familiar with hot-swapping using V-locks and RedVolts in the DSMC1 side-handle, so am all questions and no answers here.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

hmm...

I hope that we will see a wider range of the square form factor like the new Anton bauers. Those solve the whole situation, too.. But damn switching a whole range of batteries will be expensive as hell.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

We used the "suicide cable" technique for years. But ... if you don't pull the cable off fast enough after your fresh battery is on - you can blow stuff up depending on the config. It's fine IF you are a ninja and know what you are doing - but when your job depends on keeping gear running and zero down time - and you can get fired on a dime - not the best idea in the long run IMO.

The MOVECAM hotswap solutions appears to be a battery plate that fits onto an existing battery module.

It gets smaller if the hotswap re-chargeable battery is inside an actual battery module that connects correctly to the camera or module

Hehehe. And we know someone who makes one (soon)

About that cable technique: where's the difference to using DC from a wall outlet and adding a battery? Not smart either?

 

[Phil Holland]

Okay, so we need a volunteer with a Weapon and a V-Lock I/O module to find out how long it takes to blow up their camera and/or battery while feeding it power through the V-lock and DC power inputs...:yikes:

Or, is there some other way to find out what's safe and what isn't, besides using the purpose-built modules?

What about having an AC to DC power adapter plugged into the DC-in port and a V-lock attached at the same time? Surely the camera side of the equation would be able to handle that? Which would suggest hot-swapping via a cable alone would just be dependent on the battery/ies being able to handle the switching of the load.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm only familiar with hot-swapping using V-locks and RedVolts in the DSMC1 side-handle, so am all questions and no answers here.

Erg. Don't be crazy. When power is being fed via the AC Adapter or DC IN and you have a V-Lock brick on the camera automatically switches to the DC IN. It was that way on Epic and Scarlet bodies before, it's that way now on DSMC2 bodies.

I've ran shots out in the middle of nowwhere where I used both the on camera V-Lock and the DC IN to swap batteries during 12 hour timelapses. Works as expected.

 

[sam karr]

From Phil "I've held in my hands the Raven with the 4.7" LCD Touch and that DSMC2 Universal Top Handle. Much like the DSMC2 Top Handle, the Universal is there in front of the display. At times not ideal, at times it doesn't really matter. Depends on how you work really. The good news is you can easily detach the Top Handles if you need them out of the way."

From Kevin "I did notice that the description page for the Base I/O V-Lock seems to have been updated with this:
"NOTE: The DSMC2 Top Handle is NOT fully compatible with the DSMC2 Base I/O V-Lock Expander, as the top handle will interfere with the battery when one is attached to the expander module.""

A top handle is not an ideal solution on these cameras for the moment indeed. What about the Red or WC side handles (outrigger)? Will they fit alongside the monitor?

Agree that the universal handle seems to not leave a lot of room for the hand:

Edit: checking all the dimensions documents and comparing with some pictures, it seems the WC sidehandle is working with the 4.7 monitor at least.

 

[Les Hillis]

Erg. Don't be crazy. When power is being fed via the AC Adapter or DC IN and you have a V-Lock brick on the camera automatically switches to the DC IN. It was that way on Epic and Scarlet bodies before, it's that way now on DSMC2 bodies.

I've ran shots out in the middle of nowwhere where I used both the on camera V-Lock and the DC IN to swap batteries during 12 hour timelapses. Works as expected.

So hot-swapping with two V-lock bricks is possible with the DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Module, if your fresh V-Lock has a d-tap (for example) and can be connected to the DC IN before being connected to the V-Lock mount, or if you're using a third battery in-between like Björn suggested.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

From Phil "I've held in my hands the Raven with the 4.7" LCD Touch and that DSMC2 Universal Top Handle. Much like the DSMC2 Top Handle, the Universal is there in front of the display. At times not ideal, at times it doesn't really matter. Depends on how you work really. The good news is you can easily detach the Top Handles if you need them out of the way."

From Kevin "I did notice that the description page for the Base I/O V-Lock seems to have been updated with this:
"NOTE: The DSMC2 Top Handle is NOT fully compatible with the DSMC2 Base I/O V-Lock Expander, as the top handle will interfere with the battery when one is attached to the expander module.""

A top handle is not an ideal solution on these cameras for the moment indeed. What about the Red or WC side handles (outrigger)? Will they fit alongside the monitor?

Agree that the universal handle seems to not leave a lot of room for the hand:

Edit: checking all the dimensions documents and comparing with some pictures, it seems the WC sidehandle is working with the 4.7 monitor at least.

Ok, that confirms it. Another piece of the package that I need to sell off as brand new then
I will not sell all of my batteries just because the handle doesn't work. But I really think that they should have solved this design thing when the biggest thing about Weapon is a redesign.

 

[sam karr]

Ok, that confirms it. Another piece of the package that I need to sell off as brand new then
I will not sell all of my batteries just because the handle doesn't work. But I really think that they should have solved this design thing when the biggest thing about Weapon is a redesign.

Well, thinking about it, I don't really see what they could do to keep it simple and resolve these problems. The box is small, the V-mounts are what they are, the size of a hand is what it is. It's either make a bigger camera, either having some different batteries (they made the redvolts), proposing different handles that can fit (you can use the universal smaller top handle, or their sidehandle and no battery/screen problems anymore).

It's a good thing to open third parties to the game then. They are the ones who can imagine and sell twisted solutions like this hotswap V-mount module or maybe V-mount modules that you can turn 90°, who knows.

I guess the problem is more about the package then. Speaking of package I think it's weird that there is no card reader in the scarlet-W package. A package should be a camera that can work 100% out of the box no? Or is it possible now to offload the card directly from a usb cable on the camera?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Well, thinking about it, I don't really see what they could do to keep it simple and resolve these problems. The box is small, the V-mounts are what they are, the size of a hand is what it is. It's either make a bigger camera, either having some different batteries (they made the redvolts), proposing different handles that can fit (you can use the universal smaller top handle, or their sidehandle and no battery/screen problems anymore). It's a good thing to open third parties to the game too. They are the ones who can imagine and sell twisted solutions like this hotswap V-mount module or maybe V-mount modules that you can turn 90°, who knows.
I guess the problem is more about the package then. Speaking of package I think it's weird that there is no card reader in the scarlet-W package.

Right now, the upgrade package isn't working for V-lock battery users, which would probably be a primary user base. We can't change the upgrade package to the universal handle and the v-lock expander which means we are wasting money on parts of the gear that we will never use. We also won't use the XL battery module if our primary battery investment have been v-locks, so then we have three parts of the upgrade package for a worth of $3450 that we will have no use for and need to sell off. There's no reason to keep gear that we will not use. I feel that it would be much better to reduce the cost of the upgrade for those who want to go with V-locks by that amount and removing those three parts. That way, we could use the refund amount for buying other modules we will actually use instead.

 

[Phil Holland]

Right now, the upgrade package isn't working for V-lock battery users, which would probably be a primary user base. We can't change the upgrade package to the universal handle and the v-lock expander which means we are wasting money on parts of the gear that we will never use. We also won't use the XL battery module if our primary battery investment have been v-locks, so then we have three parts of the upgrade package for a worth of $3450 that we will have no use for and need to sell off. There's no reason to keep gear that we will not use. I feel that it would be much better to reduce the cost of the upgrade for those who want to go with V-locks by that amount and removing those three parts. That way, we could use the refund amount for buying other modules we will actually use instead.

Correction. If using certain V-Lock batteries it works fine. Additionally if using something like the REDVOLT Expander it also works with "everything" and the usefulness and ergonomics of the DSMC2 Top Handle become very real. Also, for the REDVOLT XL shooters, it isn't an issue. Package bundles aren't going to give everybody everything they want, that's just the reality of how it works. In the case of Weapon, that stuff was essentially included and no real extra cost initially.

However, there is a way to remove the handle bit of the new Top Handle. Potentially allowing for it to be modified to whatever length you want.

Or you can lose the Start/Stop function, sell off your handle, and pick up the Universal Top Handle. I'm picking one up just to be able to mount accessories to it.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Right now, the upgrade package isn't working for V-lock battery users, which would probably be a primary user base. We can't change the upgrade package to the universal handle and the v-lock expander which means we are wasting money on parts of the gear that we will never use. We also won't use the XL battery module if our primary battery investment have been v-locks, so then we have three parts of the upgrade package for a worth of $3450 that we will have no use for and need to sell off. There's no reason to keep gear that we will not use. I feel that it would be much better to reduce the cost of the upgrade for those who want to go with V-locks by that amount and removing those three parts. That way, we could use the refund amount for buying other modules we will actually use instead.

Possibly, but that would be for RED / Jared to decide. Might be reason to give us those things that are included in the upgrade deals instead of some other stuff. And even though there is money exchanged for these upgrades it´s a bit like you look a gift horse in the mouth, no? I mean compared to buying the new gear fresh you prefere the upgrade path instead.

And I know for sure there will be 3rd part options that work well with that front part of the handle and the high back of the Vlock so look at the handle as a gift given to you.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Correction. If using certain V-Lock batteries it works fine. Additionally if using something like the REDVOLT Expander it also works with "everything" and the usefulness and ergonomics of the DSMC2 Top Handle become very real. Also, for the REDVOLT XL shooters, it isn't an issue. Package bundles aren't going to give everybody everything they want, that's just the reality of how it works. In the case of Weapon, that stuff was essentially included and no real extra cost initially.

However, there is a way to remove the handle bit of the new Top Handle. Potentially allowing for it to be modified to whatever length you want.

Or you can lose the Start/Stop function, sell off your handle, and pick up the Universal Top Handle. I'm picking one up just to be able to mount accessories to it.

Buying the REDVOLT expander when you won't be using redvolts, just to be able to use the Red Bricks with the top handle is not really a "solution". Also, "giving away" gear worth $3450 would be no difference than using that sum for gear that v-lock users need more. I mean, it's not trash that they "give away", it's gear that can be sold for their value instead of me just reselling it as soon as I get it. I have better need for $3450 on other things than modules and handles that will collect dust on a shelf somewhere. I really don't understand why we have to sell off brand new equipment like that, just to be able to buy the actual modules and handles we need. There's really no benefit to the users or Red themselves really. Now it will be a tedious process of gathering all gear that I need, selling of the included gear, putting in a second order for the modules and handles I need etc. I mean, in theory, the gear will never be used and therefor I could sell them back to Red as brand new or "battle tested". Or I can say it now, if someone is interested you can get them brand new from me. Bjorn, do you need spares?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Buying the REDVOLT expander when you won't be using redvolts, just to be able to use the Red Bricks with the top handle is not really a "solution". Also, "giving away" gear worth $3450 would be no difference than using that sum for gear that v-lock users need more. I mean, it's not trash that they "give away", it's gear that can be sold for their value instead of me just reselling it as soon as I get it. I have better need for $3450 on other things than modules and handles that will collect dust on a shelf somewhere. I really don't understand why we have to sell off brand new equipment like that, just to be able to buy the actual modules and handles we need. There's really no benefit to the users or Red themselves really. Now it will be a tedious process of gathering all gear that I need, selling of the included gear, putting in a second order for the modules and handles I need etc. I mean, in theory, the gear will never be used and therefor I could sell them back to Red as brand new or "battle tested". Or I can say it now, if someone is interested you can get them brand new from me. Bjorn, do you need spares?

It´s quite simple you as a eager weapon upgrade client is simply forced to pays ways for the lower end. Some Raven guy will be stocked when he buys your XL module for less than half list price.

There is always the option to sell your dragon and buy Mg brain only. But it seams like Red got their numbers dialed in pretty well as you still go for the upgrade option where you then also very much will help to provide a fine Mg machined XL power module to the little guy via the second hand market. i see your frustration but it´s no on that twist your arm to upgrade is it?

 

[Ugo Del]

Buying the REDVOLT expander when you won't be using redvolts, just to be able to use the Red Bricks with the top handle is not really a "solution". Also, "giving away" gear worth $3450 would be no difference than using that sum for gear that v-lock users need more. I mean, it's not trash that they "give away", it's gear that can be sold for their value instead of me just reselling it as soon as I get it. I have better need for $3450 on other things than modules and handles that will collect dust on a shelf somewhere. I really don't understand why we have to sell off brand new equipment like that, just to be able to buy the actual modules and handles we need. There's really no benefit to the users or Red themselves really. Now it will be a tedious process of gathering all gear that I need, selling of the included gear, putting in a second order for the modules and handles I need etc. I mean, in theory, the gear will never be used and therefor I could sell them back to Red as brand new or "battle tested". Or I can say it now, if someone is interested you can get them brand new from me. Bjorn, do you need spares?

Sell your camera and buy a Scarlet-W package, it has all the pieces that you want for a crazy price ^^