Got Hit by a Drone Today

[Frank Glencairn]

Even without the over the top suing rates in US I think it's rather more common sense that a drone must have a licensed pilot in order to maintain safety.

That's so typical lawyer think.

I would rather have a sane, responsible person flying a drone around me, than a licensed idiot.
I don't understand, why you think that licensing would stop idiots, doing idiotic things. You can see that when it comes to cars, motorbikes, weapons andwhatnot.
A license never stopped and idiot, being an idiot and doing big time damage.

Also you imply, that a sane and responsible person, is an idiot, that would not be able to fly a drone, before getting a license.

If someone gets hurt or not, is a question of responsibility and good old common sense.
Licenses don't provide any of it.

Once we start regulating drones, what will happen?
No flying over people
No flying over streets (cars)
No flying over cities
No flying over boats
No flying over animals
No fling over areas where somebody could be, even just animals, cause you could hit a cow
No flying in national parks

So what you gonna use you drone for?

The only thing that makes totally sense, is restriction around airfields, since you share the same airspace.

Other than that, licenses or restrictions don't provide any safety, as long as there are licensed idiots around that don't care about the restrictions.
Everybody else would do no damage in the first place, licensed or not.

Licenses are just an other tool that is giving the illusion of safety, making money, and a handle for lawyers to sue somebody,
but they will not prevent any damage.

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin

 

[Hugh Scully]

I think a hybrid approach, defining classes of drones would be reasonable where drones are tiered into different groups.

Some of these are consumer products and should be regulated local, state or federal ordinances with penalties or fines for abusing them. Flying them over unwitting crowds would qualify (I'm glad you're OK). Sure the guy is sorry but he'd be much more sorry if he had to pay a $500 fine. Perhaps these laws could provide for specific safety enhancements described here like parachutes or blade guards. Make the user and the manufacturer who sells them as "easy to fly right out of the box" responsible. I think licensing for this group is impractical. Limit their capabilities and enforce local ordinances. That should be enough.

For professional or amateur use, where payloads are greater, the rigs are highly customized and require piloting skills necessary to fly them, I would agree that licensing is practical.

Everyone here agrees that safety should be a priority. I think we need to separate consumer drones from professional acquisition drones to provide for continued innovation and shooter's rights to fly cameras safely.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

@Frank Glencairn- I think the point of licensing is to weed out the idiots. I am not saying that it would be 100% effective but, IMO, that would be the goal. Your argument seems to be "since licensing can't weed out all the idiots, let's not bother." So, what is the alternative then? There are lots of idiot drivers of cars - and I, for one, would favor MUCH more restrictive licensing policies in that area. So, while I agree that toothless licensing would help enough, perhaps rigid testing for a license would make things better.

Your Franklin quote sounds noble, but I really don't think it is appropriate here - unless, perhaps, you think all restrictions (including licensing?) on flying airplanes, driving cars, drunk driving, urinating on public property (sorry, had to think of an absurd one), etc., is OK. Let's hear it for anarchy, eh?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

That's so typical lawyer think.

I would rather have a sane, responsible person flying a drone around me, than a licensed idiot.
I don't understand, why you think that licensing would stop idiots, doing idiotic things. You can see that when it comes to cars, motorbikes, weapons andwhatnot.
A license never stopped and idiot, being an idiot and doing big time damage.

Also you imply, that a sane and responsible person, is an idiot, that would not be able to fly a drone, before getting a license.

If someone gets hurt or not, is a question of responsibility and good old common sense.
Licenses don't provide any of it.

Once we start regulating drones, what will happen?
No flying over people
No flying over streets (cars)
No flying over cities
No flying over boats
No flying over animals
No fling over areas where somebody could be, even just animals, cause you could hit a cow
No flying in national parks

So what you gonna use you drone for?

The only thing that makes totally sense, is restriction around airfields, since you share the same airspace.

Other than that, licenses or restrictions don't provide any safety, as long as there are licensed idiots around that don't care about the restrictions.
Everybody else would do no damage in the first place, licensed or not.

Licenses are just an other tool that is giving the illusion of safety, making money, and a handle for lawyers to sue somebody,
but they will not prevent any damage.

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin

So you mean that having no driving license would be better? There will still be idiots everywhere in every sector of the world, but you do actually suggest that a license to drive is irrelevant? Because that is what you imply really, even if it's another type of equipment.

Having a drivers license isn't just a badge to show that you passed basic start, stop, park, drive. It's about showing that you passed tests that point to your perception of danger. Almost every part of getting a drivers license is more about spotting dangers, learning what to do and how to do it in case of emergencies. Every got damn person today can get a drone that is heavy enough to kill or seriously hurt someone, which is equal of just throwing all rules about driving out the window and stop demanding licenses for drivers.

I could continue with the "if we do that, what then" argument and say that there are many regulations for driving, but are they keeping you from using a car to get from point A to point B? Or do you want to just drive in a straight line through someones garden without caring about speed or risks?

You also fail to understand the point of why licenses are good for everyone. If an unlicensed drone pilot crash and injure or kill someone no one could blame the technology of being unsafe, just as you can't blame the car for hitting someone. You can focus on the idiot flying it. If you have a license you will be judged based on the regulations and if you followed the rules of use it can be judged as an accident... just like a car accident. It's meant to protect both people from getting injured and the people using the gear.

The regulations for flying can be pretty easy to sum up.

- If flying over an area with people and there is a high risk of someone hurt by it, the area must be marked as a drone flying zone. People in that area during that time need to understand that it's a drone flying zone and that there are risks. This could be areas of a concert or a film crew shooting or similar.

- If the flying equipment is heavier than a certain amount, there need to be safety measures for failure of operation, like auto-parachutes or airbag-like equipment (specifics of that is up to designers to create). This is something good for both the owner and for potential victims. You might save your gear from falling damage and it will probably not kill anyone (think of it as safety belts and airbags in cars).

- The drone pilot must have gone through equipment training, knowing when and where it's safe or unsafe to fly. Like, at what wind speeds do a drone pilot risk loosing control? In what way can they prepare emergency landing zones or how do they handle a drone that might have gone out of control.

- Regulations apply to certain areas. High risk zones involves streets and events with a lot of people, these demand equipment safety measures and drone pilots that are experienced with both security and flying. Mid risk zones involves parks or areas with lesser people, demands on safety measures are less important but experienced pilots is a demand to reduce the risk of out of control drones. Low risk zones involves no real experience or need for safety measures and that the area will be filled with zero people to the best of knowledge of the person flying. These places are places like nature or owned land, as well as flying in the grand canyon where there are no people.

- Drones are categorized in terms of weight. Heavy drones that carry cameras like Red or Arri demand licenses and safety measures, while smaller drones like the DJI Phantom may not need such safety measures but still apply to keeping the flying safe.


These are the minimum things I can think of. Primarily I don't think anyone who don't have a license, training or safety measures should EVER fly over a large group of people or where there's a high risk of injury if the drone drops. I think that it's pretty clear as a rule. I do not buy into having a license being any kind of "lawyer think". It's like saying that we don't need driving licenses or that people flying smaller planes shouldn't have a flying license. That kind of thinking is just anarchy and it certainly creates more idiots than if we have licenses. We have a lot more rules for driving cars, but do they restrict the use you have cars for? No. For flying a drone, when do you actually need to fly a drone? Like, when do you need to fly a drone with a Red camera on it? Probably for a production and if you do that, shouldn't it be common sense to just have safety gear, a certificate of experience and a demand to let anyone know that the area you are flying in is a drone flying zone for the moment?
How do you explain yourself, if you don't have anything of that, after you accidentally killed a person? What do you think the police would say?

You are right that there are idiots driving cars, but how do you think the world would look like if we didn't have driving licenses or rules for driving or demands on car brands to have things like seat belts and air bags? Don't you think that kind of world would be filled with far more idiots?

 

[Scott Crawley]

The only thing that makes totally sense, is restriction around airfields, since you share the same airspace.

Other than that, licenses or restrictions don't provide any safety, as long as there are licensed idiots around that don't care about the restrictions.

The U.S. FAA was originally proposing that a commercial pilot's license be required to operate a drone. A commercial pilot's license is not a simple thing to get and the average idiot either can't or simply doesn't get one. The training that is required is extensive. Comparing a commercial pilot's license to a driver's license is applesranges.

If holding a valid pilot's license is required to purchase a drone fewer idiots will have access to them and that likely would reduce risk for the general public.

Also, such a license is a valuable thing to have so those who have them are not so likely to risk loosing them to acts of stupidity. The FAA doesn't screw around. If you turn out to be a fuck up they pull your ticket.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

The U.S. FAA was originally proposing that a commercial pilot's license be required to operate a drone. A commercial pilot's license is not a simple thing to get and the average idiot either can't or simply doesn't get one. The training that is required is extensive. Comparing a commercial pilot's license to a driver's license is applesranges.

If holding a valid pilot's license is required to purchase a drone fewer idiots will have access to them and that likely would reduce risk for the general public.

Also, such a license is a valuable thing to have so those who have them are not so likely to risk loosing them to acts of stupidity. The FAA doesn't screw around. If you turn out to be a fuck up they pull your ticket.

Because I don't live in the US I don't know how hard it really is to get one. I don't think it should be exactly like getting such a license, it should be a license that's made for drone flying, not commercial planes, but maybe I misunderstand and that a drone specific license is exactly what they mean, in that case it's exactly what I mean as well.

Agree 100%

 

[Frank Glencairn]

S
Having a drivers license isn't just a badge to show that you passed basic start, stop, park, drive. It's about showing that you passed tests that point to your perception of danger. Almost every part of getting a drivers license is more about spotting dangers, learning what to do and how to do it in case of emergencies.

And that's why the most car/bike accidents are caused by folks with brand new driver licenses.
It's a myth - you learn the rules (you probably forgot half of that right after passing the test) and get a basic driver training - the only thing that really prevents accidents is responsibility and experience.

Or do you want to just drive in a straight line through someones garden without caring about speed or risks?

What part of "common sense and responsibility" don't you understand?

I find it pretty scary, and Orwellian, how some folks bag the government, to put more rules, restrictions and laws on them, just for the illusion of more "safety".

As far as I'm concerned, every drone pilot should have a insurance, cause shit will happen, as with every machinery.

 

[Med D]

...the only thing that really prevents accidents is responsibility and experience.

How many accidental gun deaths are there in Germany each year? How does that compare to the US? Which country has the stricter gun licensing?

Comparing drones to cars in any way is nonsensical. Cars are a basic necessity in much of the US. Drones are toys for the vast majority and even for professionals they are far from required equipment. They are fantastically interesting though and so there is a huge demand.

The first time a drone is involved in a successful terrorist event we will see severe restrictions here in the US at least. I'm actually surprised we have not seen this kind of event happen yet.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

And that's why the most car/bike accidents are caused by folks with brand new driver licenses.
It's a myth - you learn the rules (you probably forgot half of that right after passing the test) and get a basic driver training - the only thing that really prevents accidents is responsibility and experience.

I find it pretty scary, and Orwellian, how some folks bag the government, to put more rules, restrictions and laws on them, just for the illusion of more "safety".

As far as I'm concerned, every drone pilot should have a insurance, cause shit will happen, as with every machinery.

Once again, without a license it would be even worse for driving safety. As I mentioned, getting a drivers license is mostly about learning how to spot danger in traffic and how to avoid it. Most of the accidents happen right after a person got the license, but the most severe accidents happen when people without license at all jump into a car and goes into traffic. You are using "idiots in traffic" to justify how irrelevant driving licenses are, which is completely out there. You also don't seem to figure out that getting a drivers license is the first step in getting that experience and at the same time taking those first steps in a safe and controlled environment. That is the whole point of getting that license, it's a certificate that you past a widely accepted point of experience. But hey, let's close all schools as well because who needs that knowledge when we can get experience!

It's also interesting how you start blaming the government for "Orwellian" rules and restrictions when it's for preventing fatal accidents. How did we get from "we need some restrictions to prevent accidents" to "the government try to brainwash and control the population". What's scary for me is anarchy based on people's high expectation in others good will and intelligent nature. To speak frankly, all people are stupid and rules and regulations are ways to prevent a society to fall apart under total anarchy and chaos. It's not black and white, it's not "rules equal control and a totalitarian society and freedom equals total anarchy" but the silver lining, enough rules to prevent chaos and enough freedom to give people a good life. That balance and how to achieve it is political philosophy at it's most complex, but regulating flying drones to prevent killing someone or at least making sure it's as safe as it can be without taking away the freedom of working with drones is a no brainer.

And insurance doesn't cover someones loss of their child or a parent or a partner or a loved one that got killed by a drone. If someone buys a drone without any knowledge of flying it and without any safety measures for using it just because there aren't any rules and then accidentally kill someone I love I will "accidentally" beat that person to an inch of their life and maybe crash a drone on them myself "by accident". Because hey, there are no rules or regulations so why couldn't I?

Blind faith in common sense is ignoring the behavioral psychology of how people behave both personally and in a society. Idiots exist everywhere but idiots thrive in a society without rules.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Yeah, whatever dude - I give up - to each his own.

 

[Aaron McLane]

So you mean that having no driving license would be better? There will still be idiots everywhere in every sector of the world, but you do actually suggest that a license to drive is irrelevant? Because that is what you imply really, even if it's another type of equipment.

Having a drivers license isn't just a badge to show that you passed basic start, stop, park, drive. It's about showing that you passed tests that point to your perception of danger. Almost every part of getting a drivers license is more about spotting dangers, learning what to do and how to do it in case of emergencies. Every got damn person today can get a drone that is heavy enough to kill or seriously hurt someone, which is equal of just throwing all rules about driving out the window and stop demanding licenses for drivers.

You are right that there are idiots driving cars, but how do you think the world would look like if we didn't have driving licenses or rules for driving or demands on car brands to have things like seat belts and air bags? Don't you think that kind of world would be filled with far more idiots?

Ahh Drivers Licenses are not about safety, at all...... in 2010 1.2 million people were killed in automotive accidents worldwide 99.999% were or were killed by licensed drivers. In California they did a study that showed un-licenced / un-documented drivers were 4 times as safe per 100k miles of driving.

1.2 Million killed every year by licensed drivers .......... or......... I only know of 3 fatalities by non mil UAV's in the last 5 years by un-licened pilots....... hmmm let's keep it unlicensed.

Remember if a full sized helicopter had been filming the OP parade and had to go down do to, mechanical failure, mid-air collision, pilot heart attack, fuel exhaustion or intentional crash 30 or 40 people could have easily been killed....... like when those licensed pilots went down into that pub in the UK and killed 35 people in that police copter.

Unfortunately common sense cannot be regulated into existence.

 

[Mark Phelan]

Why can't we make drones a good bit safer by enclosing the props? I know there are some out there that have guards, but something like this is in the right direction if the other issues can be worked out: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150...d-fan-duct-drone-launches-on-kickstarter.html

 

[Aaron McLane]

Prop guards are nice, especially indoors, we have used them when close to A list actors on indoor shoots but they really degrade the performance of the aircraft.

 

[Scot Yount]

So...after the Drudge thing blew up my story, there were nearly 1700 vitriolic comments posted about drones. By contrast, the same news website for the local CBS station had two stories on New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady with the latest on "DeflateGate" and they got 5 and 22 comments respectively over a week's time. Then, more reporters were calling me, and showing up at my door informing me that the FAA is now investigating the accident. That was news to me as they haven't called me...but whatever. Here is the story (once again kinda...)

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_op...5/faa_probes_marblehead_parade_drone_accident

You know it is bad when a woman walks up to me in the grocery story today because she noticed the cuts on the back of my neck and realized that I was the "DRONE GUY..." Good Grief.

 

[D Fuller]

I find it pretty scary, and Orwellian, how some folks bag the government, to put more rules, restrictions and laws on them, just for the illusion of more "safety".

As far as I'm concerned, every drone pilot should have a insurance, cause shit will happen, as with every machinery.

And how, exactly do you reconcile your statement #1 with your statement #2?

Do you mean you think that drone pilots ought to get insurance because they think it's a good idea? Or because someone says they have to? If it's because they all think it's a good idea, you're much more of a Pollyanna than anything you write has ever lead me to believe. If it's because someone says they have to, you're arguing for government regulation. Or is there somebody else I don't know about who can require drone pilots to get insurance?

 

[Mark Phelan]

You know it is bad when a woman walks up to me in the grocery story today because she noticed the cuts on the back of my neck and realized that I was the "DRONE GUY..." Good Grief.

So the Drone Guy is from Marblehead? This just gets better all the time.

 

[Scot Yount]

So the Drone Guy is from Marblehead? This just gets better all the time.

Yup...MARBLEHEAD.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Ahh Drivers Licenses are not about safety, at all...... in 2010 1.2 million people were killed in automotive accidents worldwide 99.999% were or were killed by licensed drivers. In California they did a study that showed un-licenced / un-documented drivers were 4 times as safe per 100k miles of driving.

Did they also check what type of travels unlicensed drivers do? Are they traveling on fast highways where most fatal accidents happen? Or are they traveling in low speed areas? Also, of course there will be more accidents by licensed drivers worldwide since there are far more or rather extremely more licensed drivers than unlicensed.

You can't compare those numbers without the fact that it's nowhere near 50% unlicensed and 50% licensed drivers in the world. And why are you comparing accidents by people with drivers licenses with accidents by UAVs? Makes no sense what so ever to do that.

As for the example with the helicopter. What does mechanical failure, heart attacks etc. has to do with being a licensed pilot? Do you think that not having a license for flying a full size helicopter is magically preventing accidents? I didn't even say anything like that. What I was saying is that by having a license you have been trained and tested to counteract if there was to be an accident or have the knowledge on how to be safe when flying to prevent them to the best of your ability, just like anything else that demands a license. A license is to prevent dumbasses from using extremely dangerous tech because if something happens they might not know what to do, a licensed pilot have been trained in a safe environment to counteract and keep calm when something happens. If you get that type of knowledge by experience alone you might already have caused an accident. The bottom line is that a license is a proof of such knowledge and it also shows that the person who flew the drone did try to prevent the accident to the best of their ability, which is also pretty important if something goes to court. Good luck being unlicensed and win a case, hello prison.

A license is, as I said, a certificate for a certain amount of experience in flying or driving or whatever. If you didn't complete your education where you get grades or a certificate of completing it I would never employ you for a certain type of work, why would I? By your word on experience alone? If we were only looking for experience it would be chaos because of all the idiots who overestimate their own abilities, which is a common thing among everyone (look it up under psychology)

An example of this that I have first hand is a drone pilot for a shoot I was on who had worked for ten years with things like it and who built his own gear. He didn't have a license and I put my faith in his knowledge and experience. I thought the weather was a bit windy and asked (his knowledge) if we should call it off. He crashed a Scarlet with a master prime right into the ocean. Great work mr experience, now let's talk about insurance, oh, you don't have one?

Flying drones isn't freakin kinder garden. A license isn't a certificate of experience but of a level of experience for which the licensed pilot can prove. Looking at accident-rates among non-licensed and licensed drivers and so on completely ignores the reasons for why licenses exists. What scares me the most is how people want freedom to do whatever they want justifying it by saying that if they hurt themselves it's their own fault. This is about other people, preventing harm to others not the idiot flying it. If he crash the drone killing himself then we could all just say "what a stupid sob", but if he accidentally killed someone else or a kid by having little knowledge on how to safely operate it then that is a whole other thing.

With licenses, you would loose your drone if you fly without a license and will be charged a fine for doing so. This might get all those idiots away from flying over crowds which happens too often and accidents will increase if nothing is done to prevent it. This is a growing tech, you can't use accident numbers and comparing them to driving accidents. Not having rules or licenses open the tech up for being used by everyone and the rate of idiots go up. With licenses these idiots risk fines and jailtime if severe.

Sorry, but I think this world is filled with too many idiots for a society to work without rules and regulations. Just because you might have more experience than someone else who is licensed doesn't mean that such opinions applies as a fact to the world on a larger scale. Just because you might be able to fly a plane without license, doesn't mean it's safe to remove pilot-licenses. That is in all terms and aspects of the word... stupid.

 

[Harry Clark]

I have nothing good to say about drones. I've been a safety officer at an RC club, and have been around toys that fly both small and very large for a long time. The more you know, the more dangerous they appear. Quadcopters and the like are a poisonous mixture - inherently unstable and bristling with sharp moving parts,with terrible modes of failure, yet cheap, exciting, widely available and wrapped in a thin glossy veneer of instant no-brain usability.

I wouldn't fly something as harmless as an all-foam glider anywhere near people, despite my considerable skill at so doing. Never mind a whirling mass of cheap sharp plastic and beta grade firmware.

Its not to say they shouldn't exist as a professional tool, or for a dedicated and licensed hobbyist. Plenty of things carry inherent and significant risk in everyday life, but we license and control their sale and use. Insisting that accidents happen anyway is a terrible argument against regulation. People crash vehicles every day, so what... We should give up on training and licensing drivers, requiring them to meet standards of skill (and sobriety), carrying insurance, and maintaining their vehicle in a roadworthy state?

Punishment for circumventing these things maliciously and causing an accident in most parts of the world tends to mean time behind bars. No lesser standard should apply to flying a drone - right now its like the wild west, and it stinks.

Post. Of. The. Year.
Well said, John.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Scott Crawley]

What does mechanical failure, heart attacks etc. has to do with being a licensed pilot? ...

A license is, as I said, a certificate for a certain amount of experience in flying or driving or whatever.

More than just experience behind the stick, a commercial pilot's license certifies that they have learned the many rules of the road and how to respond to various emergencies, the physics of flight and how to responsibly maintain their aircraft for safe operation.

Again, obtaining a pilot's license is nothing like a motor vehicle license. You can walk in off of the street and after a brief exam acquire one of those. No training certificate is required at all (In the U.S.).