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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good news...

Bill Anderson said:
Hey Evin, things change, just ask Kodak or General Motors- or Jim for that matter.
Besides, what's a guy like Jannard to do? back off because producers prefer a couple of flavors? "Stellar performance" will be enough for the rest of the world.
The elitist paradigm is in its final throws.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying they won't, I'm just saying that it's not going to be this year. I talk to these guys three or four times a week. They're not going to gamble their budgets on gear they've never heard of until somebody proves to them it's viable. That was true about the Red too. In order for that to happen there needs to be a good volume of lenses in the field being used by professional DPs that are respected and preferred. Once we get a chance to test all of these at the S.A.L.T. we'll have a better understanding of what the market will ultimately bare. Still, Zeiss Super and Standard lenses have a lot going for them, even optically. They will always have value, I do agree $50K for a Super speed set is preposterous, but I expect the MIIIs to fall in line with whatever the new T1.3 lenses (Illumina) prime set costs.

This is not about being elitist, trust me, I want them all! I just think all this talk about the "bubble being popped" is silly. Houses in my area (LA) are still selling for 20% higher than they should be. Supply and demand is a fickle thing, once a seller gets it into this head he can get a certain number it's hard to let go.
 
I usually agree with Evin and maybe partially agree with him here, but we also see "proven" rental houses, producers, directors and cinematographers waiting in line for these primes. I think we may have earned the fact that "if it is not right, we will make it so", and that the RED ONE is proof enough that we just might know what we are doing. The acknowledgment that our 1st two lens offerings were "price/performance" lenses and the new 18-85mm RED Pro zoom was our 1st "professional" lens, has garnered us some additional respect.

Mark's witness to the optical quality was "read around the globe"... so I hear from customers. We would be nervous if we didn't feel comfortable in the findings.

On the other hand, there are still people that want to shoot film and have no interest in RED or any other digital camera. I think that Evin's position is valid because these are people that have what they want and see no reason to do otherwise. God love 'em. No complaints from us.

But at the end of the day, if our Pro Series lenses outperform higher priced sets and there is no mechanical compromise... word will get out rather quickly.

I have no doubt that we won't be alone in this space either. There are many new lens sets being readied for release. The additional question that has to be answered by all of us is... "will each of us (companies shipping new lens sets) be willing and able to stand behind the products we ship when something goes wrong?". RED's has history in this area, shipping our 1st customers "prototypes" and nursing them along with upgrade after upgrade at n/c. The latest was a full camera hardware upgrade with paid shipping both ways. There have been post after post regarding the customer service that followed the RED ONE release. This costs money. So if I am a seasoned professional, I would certainly need to become comfortable with what happens AFTER I buy a lens set before I made the decision to buy something "new".

Jim
 
Jannard said:
RED's has history in this area, shipping our 1st customers "prototypes" and nursing them along with upgrade after upgrade at n/c. The latest was a full camera hardware upgrade with paid shipping both ways.
Jim
Click to expand...

Shipping both ways? Seriously, that right there sells me products. Not for the money is saves me, but because it really proves the dedication to integrity. It shows me they are saying, "this is how it should have been shipped if there was a perfect world, since it wasn't, we stand by our claims 110%."

Those companies are the few that will stand the test of these current economic hardships.

Not to mention the sleep it brings for being at peace with your investment :) Now THAT'S priceless in these current times...
 
Don't forget the credit for those that paid original price on the 300mm Pro Prime. Bilding a customer base seems to be at the forefront of his plan, as it should be for this sort of industry.

I see it as a company with a leader that knows how to turn a profit. He knows that what matters isn't a quick buck here and there, but making sure that they work harder and smarter than everyone else in the game. He is also bringing in the law of large numbers into the picture which he seems to be ultimately responsible for.
 
Jannard said:
But at the end of the day, if our Pro Series lenses outperform higher priced sets and there is no mechanical compromise... word will get out rather quickly.
Jim
Click to expand...

Absolutely true jim, but there needs to be volume in the field for this to make a difference.
The 18-85 seems like a killer lens but I know of only one rental house that has one (indierentals). This lens is still on backorder from Red and I have read here that only about 50 or so have shipped (correct me if I 'm wrong here). If you can get 500 sets of Red primes (with the 18mm) delivered by the end of the year then you could conceivably break the bubble. I doubt any of the other prime offering will be able to do better, but there have been some rambling of sets available at or close to NAB. The demand is there it's always been a question of supply. As long as there is a limited supply, the demand will force prices of the available offerings up.

As far as Red's customer service it's second to none and that's important but most of the new glass being announced is backed by reputable dealers (Able, Bandpro, Serious gear) and I expect the service and support for most offering to be top notch, especially with the field of competition growing so aggressively.
 
Hi Jim
We tested an early serial# 18-85mm zoom on our Reds and it looked really good. We then tried to put it on our Sony F35 and the Arri PL mount ears were catching the lens iris barrel and stopped it from mounting on the camera.
Has this issue been resolved? It must be important to Red that its lenses can mount on other digital cameras. It really matters to rental houses when we spend money. Especially this year.

John Chater
Chater Camera Inc
San Francisco
 
Evin Grant said:
I'm not saying they won't, I'm just saying that it's not going to be this year. I talk to these guys three or four times a week. They're not going to gamble their budgets on gear they've never heard of until somebody proves to them it's viable. That was true about the Red too. In order for that to happen there needs to be a good volume of lenses in the field being used by professional DPs that are respected and preferred. Once we get a chance to test all of these at the S.A.L.T. we'll have a better understanding of what the market will ultimately bare. Still, Zeiss Super and Standard lenses have a lot going for them, even optically. They will always have value, I do agree $50K for a Super speed set is preposterous, but I expect the MIIIs to fall in line with whatever the new T1.3 lenses (Illumina) prime set costs.

This is not about being elitist, trust me, I want them all! I just think all this talk about the "bubble being popped" is silly. Houses in my area (LA) are still selling for 20% higher than they should be. Supply and demand is a fickle thing, once a seller gets it into this head he can get a certain number it's hard to let go.
Click to expand...

Hey Evin- not to split hairs, but you think a bubble being popped is silly, yet agree about $50K Zeiss Prime lens kits being preposterous... THAT is what I was talking about... 20 + year old lenses that have appreciated 300%...
it NEEDS to burst and come back to earth... but admittedly I say that
so I can buy a set for around $25K. :)
 
Evin Grant said:
Absolutely true jim, but there needs to be volume in the field for this to make a difference.
The 18-85 seems like a killer lens but I know of only one rental house that has one (indierentals). This lens is still on backorder from Red and I have read here that only about 50 or so have shipped (correct me if I 'm wrong here). If you can get 500 sets of Red primes (with the 18mm) delivered by the end of the year then you could conceivably break the bubble. I doubt any of the other prime offering will be able to do better, but there have been some rambling of sets available at or close to NAB. The demand is there it's always been a question of supply. As long as there is a limited supply, the demand will force prices of the available offerings up.

As far as Red's customer service it's second to none and that's important but most of the new glass being announced is backed by reputable dealers (Able, Bandpro, Serious gear) and I expect the service and support for most offering to be top notch, especially with the field of competition growing so aggressively.
Click to expand...

Reasonable concern... The 18-85mm is a very exotic (and slow to produce) lens. The primes will roll off at a much higher pace. I'd expect to have 500 sets in customers hands by early summer. 1st deliveries will be in April.

Jim
 
ya'll are asking about mini primes when Evin just got Jim to cough up a date on Primes?
greedy bastards. :)

hmmm. 2000 a year (since summer equinox is 3 months away... thats 500 sets a quarter
or about 2000 sets a year... meaning... i wont be getting mine for 2 years if it
goes by camera serial number. :( ah well... exciting none the less...

now Im sure someone will ask... thats great Jim, how how far behind is 18mm... ?

no, im not asking... ive learned its soon as its done and RED feels good about it... thats when
 
Expect 500 sets delivered by early summer? 2009? That is excellent news!

I know you've said a lot to us already,just pointing out the next obvious question:
I assume that isn't with the 18mm though... not that it might not happen, but that you are not ready to make a call on that yet. Correct?
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
hmmm. 2000 a year (since summer equinox is 3 months away... thats 500 sets a quarter
or about 2000 sets a year... meaning... i wont be getting mine for 2 years if it
goes by camera serial number.
Click to expand...

500 on the first quarter of production should mean many more than 500 in the quarters to follow

Tim Whitcomb said:
Roberto, you asked before I even hit send!
Click to expand...

I may have been born in Argentina but I think I am a quick draw cowboy :-)
 
The 18mm (and others) are full steam ahead...

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Reasonable concern... The 18-85mm is a very exotic (and slow to produce) lens. The primes will roll off at a much higher pace. I'd expect to have 500 sets in customers hands by early summer. 1st deliveries will be in April.

Jim
Click to expand...

In that case sir, I congratulate you and look forward to testing your primes at our little S.A.L.T. test in April. I will bring an extra pair of socks with the expectation that the first pair will be blown clean off!
 
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