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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Good enough...

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I think we are finally getting to the real message. I'll take 4K (or 5K) REDCODE to RGB 1080P anytime. This is very easy to understand stuff.

Jim
 
Guys lets put it in perspective, the discussion here was about 4K and 1080p being good enough.The only reason redcode is there because the RED Camera is a reality today. That does not take credit away from Redcode or the work done on it. There would not be the code without the camera. 4K is 4K you may not need it today, but if you can acquire it and still go 1080p, mark my word you will regret it one day if your work or footage needs any shelf life. Read my earlier post, experience is the best teacher in the real world.

Yusuf Thakur
VFX.Dubai
 
Mike Gross said:
A very very small number of movies mostly due to the data management issues. Benjamin Button used over 350 LTO tapes (280TB) or $30k in tape backups alone and double that for the second backup. (I got these numbers from source involved with the production)

The same amount of footage on red one would be 10TB or 12 LTO tapes.
That's alot of tapes to store, backup, and pull from to do your final conform.
If you're conforming from disk then that's a huge amount of online storage you need plus a whol lot more manpower to deal with managing 300TB.
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This is pretty interesting to me in regards of buying a Scarlet. Although storage is cheap nowadays buying a few Terabytes of harddrives to back up a project sounds a bit intimidating to me.

How much storage space would one hour of RAW Scarlet 3K footage take? Approximately of course and depending on compression settings used but I can't even guess to put it in the ballpark of 1TB or 1GB :D
 
yusufwings said:
4K is 4K you may not need it today, but if you can acquire it and still go 1080p, mark my word you will regret it one day if your work or footage needs any shelf life.
Click to expand...

Remember also that even if your delivery format ends up being, say, 720, shooting in 4k gives a plethora of other benefits, as I come to realize again and again. You can easily re-frame/crop, without penalty. You can get gorgeous framegrabs (which is fantastic for documentary, when there is never the time to take stills). You can add zooms and pans in post.

And all this can be done on a off-the shelf laptop, no dedicated, expensive hardware needed. Filmed on a camera that costs less than a proper HD camera.
 
Mike Gross said:
ProRes only is a good selling point for some workflows but Alexa will primarily be used as a 1080p tape based camera with or without prores for editorial.
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The tape-less and render-free usage of the ProRes files is so convenient that I bet that most productions will find out that the quality jump to HDCAM-SR in reality is so minor that they will drop the bulky tape recorder and work on the ProRes files solely.

Even for an evenly lit green screen ProRes is not too bad, quality wise much closer to HDCAM-SR than to HDCAM. For critical shots there is Arri RAW.

I wish that Red is developing a ProRes and an Avid DNxHD module for EPIC.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
The tape-less and render-free usage of the ProRes files is so convenient that I bet that most productions will find out that the quality jump to HDCAM-SR in reality is so minor that they will drop the bulky tape recorder and work on the ProRes files solely.

Even for an evenly lit green screen ProRes is not too bad, quality wise much closer to HDCAM-SR than to HDCAM. For critical shots there is Arri RAW.

I wish that Red is developing a ProRes and an Avid DNxHD module for EPIC.

Hans
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... realtime ProRes is available with RED Rocket™™ (fairly cheap considering the price of other options) and REDCODE to DNX-HD is native now to AVID. Plus, you have 4K, 4.5K or 5K files when you need them.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
... realtime ProRes is available with RED Rocket™™™™ (fairly cheap considering the price of other options) and REDCODE to DNX-HD is native now to AVID. Plus, you have 4K, 4.5K or 5K files when you need them.

Jim
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To be honest Jim, it ALWAYS amazes me how Down on the Ground you are as an owner. And its a joy to see you on these boards at 3-4-5AM. To me thats really is depictive of your dediction to this company.

I mean, heck, I know why I'm awake this late, but its awesome to see you post like you do.

:thumbsup:
 
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Jimmy Odom said:
To be honest Jim, it ALWAYS amazes me how Down on the Ground you are as an owner. And its a joy to see you on these boards at 3-4-5AM. To me thats really is depictive of your dediction to this company.

I mean, heck, I know why I'm awake this late, but its awesome to see you post like you do.

:thumbsup:
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If we don't have the best solution... we don't deserve to be here.

Jim
 
Fun part is that people seem NOT to calculate the time it takes to record from SR, while the transcode to prores with Rocket is an issue...

1 hour is one hour whatever you choose.

That said...

I would still love the rocket to allow for even more accelleration (say: half debayer...) for proxy-transcodes.

And that prores module would not hurt either, for some I know...
 
Jimmy Odom said:
To be honest Jim, it ALWAYS amazes me how Down on the Ground you are as an owner. And its a joy to see you on these boards at 3-4-5AM. To me thats really is depictive of your dediction to this company.

I mean, heck, I know why I'm awake this late, but its awesome to see you post like you do.

:thumbsup:
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Which really begs the question if Jim is posting from his laptop from his bed at home or on the couch at red studios :biggrin:
 
George Tsai said:
Which really begs the question if Jim is posting from his laptop from his bed at home or on the couch at red studios :biggrin:
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I'm posting from my home office in Las Vegas. My wife has just given me the "goodnight kiss".

Jim
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Fun part is that people seem NOT to calculate the time it takes to record from SR, while the transcode to prores with Rocket is an issue...

1 hour is one hour whatever you choose.

That said...

I would still love the rocket to allow for even more accelleration (say: half debayer...) for proxy-transcodes.

And that prores module would not hurt either, for some I know...
Click to expand...

One hour is one hour... seems like a very small price to pay for having 4K RAW in the bank. :)

Jim
 
Jannard said:
If we don't have the best solution... we don't deserve to be here.

Jim
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But you do, and thats why I've GLADLY sold off all my kit to start fresh from scratch with all new RED gear. What I'm seeing is just PHENOMINAL.

Pleasse keep up the good work, it'll all pay off, as you continue to eat into the WORLDWIDE marketshare.

I decree that your labor WILL NOT be in vain.

I know several people who have MONEY in hand to buy, and thats just woithin my immediate circle, I can only imagine how many more people are planning on ditching their current companies to get into bed with RED. The numbers gotta be STAGGERING.
 
Jimmy Odom said:
But you do, and thats why I've GLADLY sold off all my kit to start fresh from scratch with all new RED gear. What I'm seeing is just PHENOMINAL.

Pleasse keep up the good work, it'll all pay off, as you continue to eat into the WORLDWIDE marketshare.

I decree that your labor WILL NOT be in vain.

I know several people who have MONEY in hand to buy, and thats just woithin my immediate circle, I can only imagine how many more people are planning on ditching their current companies to get into bed with RED. The numbers gotta be STAGGERING.
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I have to tell you that I am sitting here at 2am with "Snake Oil" at my side... feeling quite content. I have over 1000 cameras. This is my very best. Truly.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I have to tell you that I am sitting here at 2am with "Snake Oil" at my side... feeling quite content. I have over 1000 cameras. This is my very best.

Jim
Click to expand...

And with that I gotta ask.....

How does it feel to know that your best camera came from YOUR idea, and vision, as well as from your leadership of the people you employee?
 
Jimmy Odom said:
And with that I gotta ask.....

How does it feel to know that your best camera came from YOUR idea, and vision, as well as from your leadership of the people you employee?
Click to expand...

Pretty good... :)

Freudiana.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I think we are finally getting to the real message. I'll take 4K (or 5K) REDCODE to RGB 1080P anytime. This is very easy to understand stuff.

Jim
Click to expand...

It is so easy to see that REDCODE is the way to go. My measly 2007 iMac can handle the stuff. Uncompressed 4K RAW... not so much. It is all about work flow. True, it is at quarter debayer, but it is playing.

The people saying 1080p is enough probably don't like telling you that your 2TB workstation can only store 45 minutes of 4K Uncompressed RAW clips. So much so, that their websites don't actually list the data rates, you have to do the math yourself...
 
I haven't had the oppurtunity to work with all of the diffrent cameras out there, as many have. I recently left Film school here in Chicago, and only worked with 16mm while there. I then bought my own Canon cam, which I was never sold on completely, then another Canon only to realize i was, IMHO WASTING my money.

I've since learned from my mistakes, and WILL be one of the first to reserve Scarlet when its offered, because........

I see an inherent value in whats being produced.

And to get back on topic, no 1080p is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, if you have a better far superior option for less cost out there.
 
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