Gimbals 2.0 - The Quest for the perfect Gimbal.

[Matthew B]

Hi Ned -

I only use EF glass - so I can't speak to PL glass - My reasoning for specifying EF glass was that I think the weight variability of PL will be much greater than the variability of EF glass, which could require rebalancing vertically instead of just front/back.

Wireless FF and HD would not affect balance much with a lens change obviously.

We just got a hotlink so we will most likely be using EF motors to wirelessly FF - as it is rare we need critical FF work when on gimbal, usually I just need a preset range like "Gimme 3 feet" and then let the operator handle depth control with movement - This is obviously limiting as using the electronic lens motors on still lenses to do this can be more jittery - but again, we are rarely doing a focus pull when on gimbal, we just need a hands free way of setting the lens.

At the end of the day I prefer to keep the rig as light weight as possible, so this is another reason we go with this setup.

 

[Matthew B]

Hey Tom -

I've been running bigger v mounts in a backpack with the letus dtap power cable looped through the strap - getting about 2-2.5hrs of runtime.

It's been a great setup for runtime on both the rig and camera - and obviously you are limited in handoff options with the power supply being on your back... but I found it to be less of a problem than I originally anticipated. (The only thing I've had to watch out for is doing a crouching raise and making sure that there isn't so much slack in the cable that it will catch my knee on the way up) -

 

[Ned Wilson]

Hi Ned -

I only use EF glass - so I can't speak to PL glass - My reasoning for specifying EF glass was that I think the weight variability of PL will be much greater than the variability of EF glass, which could require rebalancing vertically instead of just front/back.

Wireless FF and HD would not affect balance much with a lens change obviously.



We just got a hotlink so we will most likely be using EF motors to wirelessly FF - as it is rare we need critical FF work when on gimbal, usually I just need a preset range like "Gimme 3 feet" and then let the operator handle depth control with movement - This is obviously limiting as using the electronic lens motors on still lenses to do this can be more jittery - but again, we are rarely doing a focus pull when on gimbal, we just need a hands free way of setting the lens.

At the end of the day I prefer to keep the rig as light weight as possible, so this is another reason we go with this setup.

I hear you. I'll look into hotlink. I mostly use primes. Rokinons for A7s and PL for Dragon. For PL I've used S4's, Super Speeds, Leica S, and K 35's. S4's were the heaviest. 90 percent of the work I do is narrative and often I have stick precise stops so I need the full on accessory party. I do love the power situation for Helix.

 

[Ned Wilson]

I probably have as much experience with heavy camera builds on a Helix as anyone. I frequently build my Helix using Epic Dragon, Switchblade, Schneider Xenons (PL), 7" Touch, Teradek Bolt pro 300, and either Cinegears or Preston MDR2/HU2 wireless FF. I've even done builds with a full BT VIV mattebox on the front, although balancing was very challenging.

I've purchased custom cabling so that the entire rig can be powered from a single Juice Box battery. Running all that stuff, I get about 15 minutes per JB, so I carry 8 of them and 4 chargers, which lets me stay ahead of the burn rate in all day usage.

As people have already mentioned, balancing a Helix is fairly easy once you've mastered the learning curve. I can build and balance in about 20-30 minutes. I would love to have worm gear adjustments, it would really speed things up. And although the Helix has an option for 2 additional accessory power connectors, I'd love to have even more power distro with some built in D-Tap female connectors. My biggest personal complaint is the lack of a power on/off button. You have to pull the battery Lemo cable to shut the unit down. Since this has been fixed on the Helix Jr., I hope it will be added to the full size Helix soon.

I use the "RED" profile that Hien developed some time ago, and frankly I rarely modify any of the parameters in the GUI. If I have any jittering, I check balance quickly and fine-tune it as necessary. I'm looking forward to using the iOS app once my Helix has been updated to include Wifi.

I frequently rent my Helix, and insist on either a 1-2 hour training/balancing session for the DP/operator, or that one of my trained assistants accompany the unit (at production's expense). I love the compact form factor and the relatively light weight. I'm sure it will be a dream with Weapon, because of the smaller size and weight.

Thanks for the insights. Very helpful. I'll probably get one once it gets to Helix 2.0. Hien, are you there? Think worm gears, bigger / longer builds and power, especially now that we've entered the exo skeleton age.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Hey Tom -

I've been running bigger v mounts in a backpack with the letus dtap power cable looped through the strap - getting about 2-2.5hrs of runtime.

It's been a great setup for runtime on both the rig and camera - and obviously you are limited in handoff options with the power supply being on your back... but I found it to be less of a problem than I originally anticipated. (The only thing I've had to watch out for is doing a crouching raise and making sure that there isn't so much slack in the cable that it will catch my knee on the way up) -

Good idea, Matthew. I've toyed with doing something similar, but I really value the mobility of the JB configuration. I do use an EasyRig fairly often with the 4th axis bracket, and have thought about permanently attaching a battery plate to the EasyRig vest somehow.

 

[Zeb B]

What needs improvement?
How is it in a high pressure client driven environment?
Time between lens or filter swaps?

I have nothing against being a knock off, so long as it works well in a pro setting and doesn't steal patents.

My experience with Helix was love hate. I owned it for about a day. Software was too undeveloped for me to figure out and definitely something I couldn't hand over to your average AC. So I got rid of it, hoping down the road, they figure this out. My Ronin, like many here I had running in half an hour. It has other shortcomings but the Fisher Price software is a huge plus.

"owned it for about a day" . . . "Fisher Price software is a huge plus"

Sounds like you have the perfect fit now so what's the question? There's a tool for everyone that suits their personal technical level and ability to adapt to more complex solutions, which might be superior once learned. Like those who use the "P" vs the "M" setting on their $5K DLSR ;-)

 

[Ned Wilson]

"owned it for about a day" . . . "Fisher Price software is a huge plus"

Sounds like you have the perfect fit now so what's the question? There's a tool for everyone that suits their personal technical level and ability to adapt to more complex solutions, which might be superior once learned. Like those who use the "P" vs the "M" setting on their $5K DLSR ;-)

Zeb, instead of P vs M, I tend to see it more like Alexa menu vs Sony menu. Sure we can learn both, by why be unnecessarily complex? The simpler solution gets it done better and faster. But if you think there's room for improvement for the Helix, especially for the sub geniuses of the world, so be it and please share.

 

[Josh K]

I opened this thread expecting this to be about gimbal heads, ready to recommend the Wimberley (but add that the RRS while way larger is more flexible and can be used for pano's). Apparently I'm a still photographer at heart.

 

[Ned Wilson]

I opened this thread expecting this to be about gimbal heads, ready to recommend the Wimberley (but add that the RRS while way larger is more flexible and can be used for pano's). Apparently I'm a still photographer at heart.

LOL!

 

[Jeremy Hildebrant]

Camera run/stop trigger on one of the handles would be helpful.

 

[Malik Tigrine]

I have my Helix for 4 months and my footages are still not perfect. There are vibration, not usuable for professional work. The software is the big problem, it would be conceivable to simplify the GUI like others gimbal. I have passed many days to tweak it, by the way if someone has a good profil to share it will be great. My setup is : Scarlet + Redtouch + Sigma 18-35mm + V-mount back plate.

 

[James T Mather]

I have a movi and an exo but still think a 4th vertical axis taking out a couple of inches of walk bounce would be a great addition - it's tricky to eliminate - especially with walking backwards etc.

 

[Zeb B]

I have my Helix for 4 months and my footages are still not perfect. There are vibration, not usuable for professional work. The software is the big problem, it would be conceivable to simplify the GUI like others gimbal. I have passed many days to tweak it, by the way if someone has a good profil to share it will be great. My setup is : Scarlet + Redtouch + Sigma 18-35mm + V-mount back plate.

Get a Skype call with Ken over at Letus. They are extremely helpful over there and will walk you through any questions you have about set-up. At first mine was a bit shaky and not tight enough on the follow (I don't like the default mushy follow lag) but after some tweaks it is rock solid and feels like a German race car in my hands. All of these gimbal products are a work in progress. Just pick the design geometry that suits your work (Heavy duty, Movi/Ronin top handle, low slung style or Helix center-line, light weight style) and then put the hours into it.

Helix lens switches are done in maybe 2 minutes . . . once you learn the basic balance routine. I mean really how many lenses do you actually use on a gimbal? Three maybe? If it's a non-internal zoom lens then you are re-balancing one axis. Write down the balance point numbers for each lens and have a preset for each situation. This is not hard and Helix is a Ready for Prime Time product.

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Get a Skype call with Ken over at Letus. They are extremely helpful over there and will walk you through any questions you have about set-up. At first mine was a bit shaky and not tight enough on the follow (I don't like the default mushy follow lag) but after some tweaks it is rock solid and feels like a German race car in my hands. All of these gimbal products are a work in progress. Just pick the design geometry that suits your work (Heavy duty, Movi/Ronin top handle, low slung style or Helix center-line, light weight style) and then put the hours into it.

Helix lens switches are done in maybe 2 minutes . . . once you learn the basic balance routine. I mean really how many lenses do you actually use on a gimbal? Three maybe? If it's a non-internal zoom lens then you are re-balancing one axis. Write down the balance point numbers for each lens and have a preset for each situation. This is not hard and Helix is a Ready for Prime Time product.

I have already call Ken, very nice guy but we have not been able to solve the problem, we need more time but i'm actually in shooting and I can't find this precious time. The footages that we have make with the Helix are not great, and we will need to rework in post-stabilisation (we hope that we can solve vibration in post but i'm not convinced). So I maintain that the Helix is not ready out-the-box like a Ronin. Maybe the Helix is a more powerful tool but it needs much much more tweaking.

 

[PC Greene]

Agreed. Letus has ***hands down THE best service in the business and getting your settings right is of course very important...

Get a Skype call with Ken over at Letus. They are extremely helpful over there and will walk you through any questions you have about set-up. At first mine was a bit shaky and not tight enough on the follow (I don't like the default mushy follow lag) but after some tweaks it is rock solid and feels like a German race car in my hands. All of these gimbal products are a work in progress. Just pick the design geometry that suits your work (Heavy duty, Movi/Ronin top handle, low slung style or Helix center-line, light weight style) and then put the hours into it.

Helix lens switches are done in maybe 2 minutes . . . once you learn the basic balance routine. I mean really how many lenses do you actually use on a gimbal? Three maybe? If it's a non-internal zoom lens then you are re-balancing one axis. Write down the balance point numbers for each lens and have a preset for each situation. This is not hard and Helix is a Ready for Prime Time product.

 

[Zeb B]

I have already call Ken, very nice guy but we have not been able to solve the problem, we need more time but i'm actually in shooting and I can't find this precious time. The footages that we have make with the Helix are not great, and we will need to rework in post-stabilisation (we hope that we can solve vibration in post but i'm not convinced). So I maintain that the Helix is not ready out-the-box like a Ronin. Maybe the Helix is a more powerful tool but it needs much much more tweaking.

All good brother - each to their own. All I know is that, of the 50 or so brands of shit that I own, Letus/Helix is, without doubt, the best supported brand of the herd. If anyone can't get it figured out with them . . . well, it's not a lack of trying on their part.

I just watched a doc on Pixar. The challenges those guys went through in the 90's to produce 3D CGI was amazing. Give me a fuckin break

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Agreed. Letus has ***hands down THE best service in the business

Couldn't agree more...Team Letus will always go the extra mile to support their customers...

 

[Malik Tigrine]

All good brother - each to their own. All I know is that, of the 50 or so brands of shit that I own, Letus/Helix is, without doubt, the best supported brand of the herd. If anyone can't get it figured out with them . . . well, it's not a lack of trying on their part.

I just watched a doc on Pixar. The challenges those guys went through in the 90's to produce 3D CGI was amazing. Give me a fuckin break

I have never say the opposite, it's the best customer service I have ever seen. But I'm talking about the final product, not the customer service.

 

[Ned Wilson]

All good brother - each to their own. All I know is that, of the 50 or so brands of shit that I own, Letus/Helix is, without doubt, the best supported brand of the herd. If anyone can't get it figured out with them . . . well, it's not a lack of trying on their part.

I just watched a doc on Pixar. The challenges those guys went through in the 90's to produce 3D CGI was amazing. Give me a fuckin break

I'll second that on Letus customer service.

 

[Ned Wilson]

So did my first gig with Ronin and Exhauss Exo. What a fun combination. Dialed in my dead band, pan and tilt and the two really mate well together. I was curious about this as I've only seen mostly Helix footage on the Exo. Great to know Ronin works well with it.