Gimbals 2.0 - The Quest for the perfect Gimbal.

[Ned Wilson]

I post this thread because with any new tech, there will be bumps in the road. While I love the concept of the three axis gimbal for shooting, I find the practice still a pain in the ass. Every gimbal I've used has certain issues that when the next generation come out, I hope they'll be solved. In my eternal optimism, I hope gimbal manufacturers present and future will reference this and improve a great idea. This is not intended as a bash the maker session but more as constructive criticism so when they go to the drawing board, these issues may be solved. Let's pray.

My experience with MOVI and LETUS HELIX is limited so those who've first hand experience, please chime in. In short, I think the next leap in gimbals will happen in the next year. I'm thinking perhaps it'll improve upon the Helix's concept as I feel this is by far the best overall design in terms of ergonomics. I'd love to see how the coptor makers answer to it and develop a gimbal ground up for cameramen and not flight The other thing I'd like to see is a gimbal that truly gets beta and battle tested by numerous full time operators as I feel much of what we suffer stem from ideas tested only in the mind of its makers.

Keep it constructive. Thanks.

RONIN

1. XYZ axis balancing needs to made easier. Even though tool less, I find when I tighten the tilt balance it goes slightly off balance so I have to work in a compensation trial error technique to achieve balance. It's still one of the faster balancing acts out there but it can always get better.


2. The roll adjustment could be better accessed if the tied down was in the rear away from the power ports.

3. Battery should mount sideways, not jutting out towards operator. Though not an issue with Exo.

4. Power outs along the top bar would be great for powering monitor and wireless transmitter

5. Extended handles for op'ing higher

6. Centralized power that can run all accessories and camera.

MOVI

1. Centralized power solution and say goodbye to multiple lipo disease.

2. Tool Less

HELIX

1. Software was too complicated for software simpletons like me. I heard it's better now. Can anyone confirm?

ALL GIMBALS

1. Worm screw tuning for all Axises would speed up the balancing act.

2. Power ports on the gimbal and cross bar / handles.

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

ACR

1. Function.

 

[Poi Boy]

ACR

1. Function.

LOL, I feel your pain Carey. Been following the thread a long time but seems like its getting very close to being all good.
Aloha
A

 

[Loic Parent]

ACR

1. Function.

you made me laugh !

 

[Mohammed Almedfa]

"7. Extended handles for op'ing higher"

Does anyone know if any company has released aftermarket longer handles for the Ronin (Like the Movi has), these would seem like such a simple & useful addition to help with getting the right height without going inverted, I'm surprised that no accessory maker has done it yet, given all the cinemilled accessory parts & the like which really expand Ronin functionality. Does anyone know of any company making something like this yet?

 

[Ned Wilson]

Can any Helix owners talk about their rigs? Balance easy? Software? Etc? I've no loyalty to anything other than what works.

I know Hien listens to users and responds accordingly.

 

[Antony Newman]

Great thread Ned.

I can't work out of I should build my own Gimbal (which would consume about a year of my time), publish my thoughts on two designs (they are a bit 'out there'), reach out to Gimbal companies ... or just 'make do' with the Helix Jr.

AJ

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Was just having a convo with someone at Letus about Helix build and software issues when maxed out with an Epic. Most of my woes have been on the software end, as i've only been able to devote limited time and sporadic attempts at getting everything working smoothly. In personal, non-critical use and testing, I've had decent preliminary results, but am nowhere close to feeling confident bringing it out on a real set. I've used it once on a low budget video because we needed movement and lacked a better option, and while the balance was pretty good, the tuning was rushed and therefore left us with mixed results.

Of course, my lack of time and experience with the Helix is largely to blame, though there is definitely room for improvement on both the hardware and software ends of things. On that note, I believe there is some good news coming down the pike for Helix users in terms of software...hopefully that makes for a slightly easier learning curve and more intuitive adjustments to get end users better results from an already great design.

+1000 on worm-screw balance option. I know weight is an issue, but I think it'd be a worthwhile option to consider.

 

[Zeb B]

Can any Helix owners talk about their rigs? Balance easy? Software? Etc? I've no loyalty to anything other than what works.

I know Hien listens to users and responds accordingly.

Helix is EZ breezy to balance once you spend a day with it. Like any professional gear . . . there is a learning curve. Letus customer service is top shelf and their design is unique - clearly not just a Movi knockoff like so many others.

 

[Josh Becker]

The Helix is easy to balance, but tuning it is where it becomes a pain in the butt. Weight changes, different setups, etc. might require tuning the motors a bit differently. There is no good way to do this right now, you basically need a computer. I think the Helix has the most versatility and is a nice, small design. But I noticed even my local rental place no longer offers the Helix for rental. Unlike the Ronin, which I threw my camera on and had ready to go in about 20 minutes, the Helix took me days of experimenting, bluetooth connecting to my laptop, downloading some third party drivers and software, and tuning the motors. It's not that I wasn't capable of doing these things, it's just a hassle and makes renting or field usage almost impossible.

 

[Ned Wilson]

Helix is EZ breezy to balance once you spend a day with it. Like any professional gear . . . there is a learning curve. Letus customer service is top shelf and their design is unique - clearly not just a Movi knockoff like so many others.

What needs improvement?
How is it in a high pressure client driven environment?
Time between lens or filter swaps?

I have nothing against being a knock off, so long as it works well in a pro setting and doesn't steal patents.

My experience with Helix was love hate. I owned it for about a day. Software was too undeveloped for me to figure out and definitely something I couldn't hand over to your average AC. So I got rid of it, hoping down the road, they figure this out. My Ronin, like many here I had running in half an hour. It has other shortcomings but the Fisher Price software is a huge plus.

 

[Ned Wilson]

Here's a new one in the arena. Thumb screw roll axis adjustment. Too bad they didn't do it for tilt. Wireless thumb control, built wireless feed, and Chinese prices.

 

[Ned Wilson]

+1000 on worm-screw balance option. I know weight is an issue, but I think it'd be a worthwhile option to consider.[/QUOTE]

I think the weight would be minimal. I've seen them on sleds. Hell even a Steadicam Merlin has it. We're talking about five 1/8" threaded rods no longer 6".

 

[Matthew B]

Hi Ned -I posted some thoughts on our Helix here:http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?117840-Letus-Helix-Information&p=1522218#post1522218

If you are using EF glass it is pretty easy to rebalance as needed when changing lenses - just a simple forward/back slide of the tilt axis to compensate for front/back heavy adjustment.

In a high pressure environment I found it way easier to deal with than another major gimbal that uses a lot more batteries and is infinitely more finicky on balance in a 3d space... Adding 15-20 minute breaks in between shots just to deal with the gimbal...

The Letus on average for me has been 1-5 minutes of setup time when changing.When I was rolling run and gun during the wedding shoot in that spot, For the most part, a filter or lens swap could be done in 30-60 seconds. But if you give yourself 5 minutes to really spend some time with it getting it right that is a reasonable time budget. Further, the motors are strong enough that if you aren't tilting more than 20 degrees, you can get away with a lot more on the helix with an imperfectly balanced rig.

Software wise, the GUI is still the same, but the firmware and operation is much more reliable than it was on launch (I think I was in the batch of the first 10 to get one). I'm using the stock profile provided by letus for a red - and have only started tuning PIDs on the tilt motor to be "less responsive" to my movement or provide more dampening.

The auto-tune PIDs feature of the BGC controller doesn't seem to work yet with the helix config, so it isn't as easy as the ronin there. That being said, It is a one time setup for the PIDs in my opinion, and I probably wouldn't hand off my rig to be have the config altered by another AC unless they had good reason to do so - Balance wise, once you figure out the vertical balance and tilt/handle balance, then you just need to adjust camera forward and back on lens swaps. (So we have our rig pretty much locked down on those other 2 axis).

The Smaller profile of the rig, along with being at a higher vertical plane made some shots possible I couldn't do with any other handheld rig - Additionally, we used the 4th axis bar on a light stand as a place to set the rig down when needed and either do lens swaps, rebalance checks there, or use it as a "completely overkill fluid head"...

 

[Ken Lawler]

HELIX

1. Software was too complicated for software simpletons like me. I heard it's better now. Can anyone confirm?

There is an iOS app in beta right now, and it is handed out to users who request it. You need the optional wifi chip in your Helix/Helix Jr. to use it. The app should be on the App Store very shortly. It's a trimmed down version of the computer software with tools to make things easier for the user (setting power for all axes based on payload weight, profile library, etc.).

 

[Matthew B]

The BGC android app isn't bad either for in the field config - (works with the original bluetooth module)

 

[Ned Wilson]

Hi Ned -I posted some thoughts on our Helix here:http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?117840-Letus-Helix-Information&p=1522218#post1522218


The Smaller profile of the rig, along with being at a higher vertical plane made some shots possible I couldn't do with any other handheld rig - Additionally, we used the 4th axis bar on a light stand as a place to set the rig down when needed and either do lens swaps, rebalance checks there, or use it as a "completely overkill fluid head"...

How is it with PL glass, wireless FF and wireless HD?

 

[PC Greene]

As a day 1 MoVI owner and Helix Seal Team member (as well as owning and testing a half dozen other gimbals) I guess I've developed a bit of a rep for bring a gimbal expert.

If you would like to have a private off thread discussion I'd be happy to share my perspective but much of my experience can be found by searching these threads...

In a nutshell, no - there absolutely is not one single perfect gimbal. They all have significant pro's and cons. That said, MoVI and Helix are IMO the 2 leaders hence I own and operate both depending on what shot I need.

That said, I too expect more advancements but don't expect them to come overnight. I think by next summer we'll see some exciting new developments from these leaders and others in the stabilizer space.

Hope this helps...

 

[PC Greene]

Worm screws are heavy. Multi connection 360º hinges are heavy expensive and prone to failure. There are reasons hardware and software development are where they are.

Just take a look at BeSteady to see what happens when one underestimates the challenges involved...

Thank you,

 

[Tom Greenberg]

How is it with PL glass, wireless FF and wireless HD?

I probably have as much experience with heavy camera builds on a Helix as anyone. I frequently build my Helix using Epic Dragon, Switchblade, Schneider Xenons (PL), 7" Touch, Teradek Bolt pro 300, and either Cinegears or Preston MDR2/HU2 wireless FF. I've even done builds with a full BT VIV mattebox on the front, although balancing was very challenging.

I've purchased custom cabling so that the entire rig can be powered from a single Juice Box battery. Running all that stuff, I get about 15 minutes per JB, so I carry 8 of them and 4 chargers, which lets me stay ahead of the burn rate in all day usage.

As people have already mentioned, balancing a Helix is fairly easy once you've mastered the learning curve. I can build and balance in about 20-30 minutes. I would love to have worm gear adjustments, it would really speed things up. And although the Helix has an option for 2 additional accessory power connectors, I'd love to have even more power distro with some built in D-Tap female connectors. My biggest personal complaint is the lack of a power on/off button. You have to pull the battery Lemo cable to shut the unit down. Since this has been fixed on the Helix Jr., I hope it will be added to the full size Helix soon.

I use the "RED" profile that Hien developed some time ago, and frankly I rarely modify any of the parameters in the GUI. If I have any jittering, I check balance quickly and fine-tune it as necessary. I'm looking forward to using the iOS app once my Helix has been updated to include Wifi.

I frequently rent my Helix, and insist on either a 1-2 hour training/balancing session for the DP/operator, or that one of my trained assistants accompany the unit (at production's expense). I love the compact form factor and the relatively light weight. I'm sure it will be a dream with Weapon, because of the smaller size and weight.