Future of the Red One

[XiaoSu Han]

Don't the RED ONEs have advantages like overcrank and other stuff that distinct them from the Scarlets?

 

[jimhare]

The Epics do, but I think the Scarlet will overcrank to about the same degree as an R1.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Don't the RED ONEs have advantages like overcrank and other stuff that distinct them from the Scarlets?

S35 Scarlet vs RED ONE:

Resolution: 5K vs 4.5K - Scarlet wins
Dynamic Range: Mysterium X vs Mysterium - Scarlet wins
Frame Rates (in full resolution): 72fps bursts vs 30fps max - Scarlet wins
Frame Rates (cropped sensor): 30fps vs 120fps - RED ONE wins
1080 recording without cropping: Yes vs No - Scarlet wins

And this doesn't even take pricing into account...

The only reasons I see to use RED ONE (or Epic for that matter) are higher frame rates and anamorphic support.

 

[Antony M]

I agree with Jaime.

Also...

Boot time: 72 secs vs 3 secs: Scarlet wins massively
Canon lens mount: nightmare vs $500: Scarlet wins massively

 

[Nils Ruinet]

Yup, and if you add :
- Wireless Redmote control
- Wifi control
- increased Redcode rates
- touch focus tracking
- Still mode
- Gigabit Ethernet
- easier backfocus adjustments
- independant LUTs on monitor outputs
- monitor ports support both EVF or LCD
- 1080p HDSDI out
- less power consumption, less heat, lighter batteries
- motion sensor + GPS
- better metadata
- lighter and more compact and much more modular... perfect for handheld, steadicam and 3D rigs...

On all these points (and some more), Scarlet wins...

If I want a second camera after I send my Red One back and get my Epic, it will definately be a Scarlet.

 

[XiaoSu Han]

In that case, wouldnt the maximum effect be:

Execute R1 get EPIC keep R1 sell R1 get SCARLET? (looks like a programming language )

On the other hand, who would buy an used R1X under these circumstances if the SCARLET is so much better in so many ways?

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

What about upgrading the electronics inside the R1 body, to get fast Epic boot-up times and framerates? Wouldn't that be a possibility?

 

[Bob Gruen]

I would think that the pricing of the cameras would follow their capabilities. If so the S35 Scarlet would be more expensive than the Red One.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

I would think that the pricing of the cameras would follow their capabilities. If so the S35 Scarlet would be more expensive than the Red One.

Right. So the question becomes: How much for a refurbished RED ONE MX? Of course, Jim already said "don't ask yet" so I'm sure they're thinking about is as we speak (type?) but the R1-MX would have to be a whole lot cheaper than the S35 Scarlet to make me buy it.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Warning: Brain droppings ahead.

Right. So the question becomes: How much for a refurbished RED ONE MX? Of course, Jim already said "don't ask yet" so I'm sure they're thinking about is as we speak (type?) but the R1-MX would have to be a whole lot cheaper than the S35 Scarlet to make me buy it.

One of two scenarios seems likely to me; either the Mysterium Scarlets come out sans overcranking allowing the R1MX to retain a unique placement in the Red lineup and come in around 60% the cost of a comperably equipped Scarlet S35, or the Mysterium Scarlets come out with comperable shooting modes and the R1MX resale value slips to 50% or less the cost of a comperable Scarlet. Factory refurbs could command slightly more, particularly if additional upgrades are done.

If you use Jaime's numbers, along with my scenario #2 then the R1MX will have slipped to 25% of the original cost, new. That is pretty much on par with other electronic devices of similar age, I think. (Provided you didn't buy your R1 within the last two years.) The R1MX has one distinct advantage over say, a 5 year old computer for instance, that lies in the fact that while It may not have all of the great new features of a new model, it is still a better product now then when you bought it, and it is just as useful as anything else out there. It is not obsolete.

These guys could have other tricks up their sleeves. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

On second thought they could be more agressive and release Scarlet S35 stripped of overcranking and demand 75% the Scarlet S35 price for a refurbished, upgraded R1. At $9000 the R1 will be closer to half of it's original value. For an old camera that is really good. That seems like a market manipulation we would expect from Canon rather than Red, but it could possibly contribute to consumer confidence.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I agree with Jaime.

Also...

Boot time: 72 secs vs 3 secs: Scarlet wins massively

Agreed.

Canon lens mount: nightmare vs $500: Scarlet wins massively

Why do you say canon lens mount nightmare? - there just isn't any good reason anymore for Birger bashing (and hasn't been for quite awhile) they fixed all of the engineering/production issues and fulfilled all of the orders months ago.

There are a couple hundred of us very successfully using Birger EF mount. I am writing this from the Bahamas where we are shooting two R1s with Birger mounts where the Director is controlling iris and focus over 225 feet of cable (really stretching the limits of RS-232!). In terms of pure image quality the images are superior to ANY underwater footage I have ever seen (including Howard Hall IMAX and no insult meant to Howard) and I have been on the forefront of underwater video technology for the past 28 years and have seen pretty much everything U/W available.

We have been doing 4 to 5 hours per camera underwater per day for the past three days, getting shots that would be practically impossible with an R1 any other way - with no Birger problems.