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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

From OLPF 2 to OLPF 1

A

Adam Johnson

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So I sent my Scarlet Dragon in last week to get the lowlight OLPF put in my camera. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the OLPF 2 for 500 ISO and below. Does magical things in sunlight. But I simply could not afford to not have the lower light sensitivity of OLPF1. I received my camera back yesterday and I have to say I am really damn happy I went with the first one!!! The highlight roll off is still better than MX as are the colors and almost everything else. Orbs aside it will be my go to even when the swappable option is installed!

My ONLY caveat with Dragon is still the pixel smearing effect. I hope it is some how addresses by RED.
 
Glad to hear it. Options are a good thing.

I'm looking forward to the Interchangeable OLPF myself. Been shooting on the Skin Tone - Highlight for a long while and it's going to be what I use 95% of the time from here on out, but can't wait to do more shooting on the Low Light OLPF. I just like the potential of this whole concept too and what the future holds down the line. Color IR is going to be a lot of fun.
 
I asked in another thread, but do you guys know how many stops better in the shadows the Low Light OLPF on Dragon is, vs MX?
(I read where you guys said Dragon Low Light OLPF is 1.3 stops better in shadows than Highlight OLPF)
 
I hope that with the interchangeable OLPF comes a red authorized comparison incl raw download samples showing what each OLPF can do and how it reacts. That would be great.
 
I'm lucky enough to have a few cameras, So I'll be building V1 & V2 cameras all with the swappable units. If I get stuck in low light (like I have over the last week) Ill need all cameras fitted out.

I was about to send two more EPICS in for DRAGON updates today, but stopped the courier short until I know the swappable system is ready to be fitted.
Cannot afford (time) to be sending the cameras back and forth again and again.

Looking forward to having the choice though.

ps. To be honest, i wish one OLPF did it all. but sadly not.
 
I still haven't heard about this (nor could I test it since no Dragon's I've used had the OLPF1 in them), but could you not just expose down a stop or two (expose at ISO3200 to protect the highlights) in order to get the same highlight range as the OLPF2? Don't get me wrong, your curve in RCXp would probably look pretty messed up (in order to reintroduce exposure in the now-crushed lows), but wouldn't it have the same effect?
 
Mike P. said:
I still haven't heard about this (nor could I test it since no Dragon's I've used had the OLPF1 in them), but could you not just expose down a stop or two (expose at ISO3200 to protect the highlights) in order to get the same highlight range as the OLPF2? Don't get me wrong, your curve in RCXp would probably look pretty messed up (in order to reintroduce exposure in the now-crushed lows), but wouldn't it have the same effect?
Click to expand...


I Have always wondered this myself. Never understood the concept of "shifting the daynamic range" from botton to top. Isn't that just cutting light? I know that there's more to that on the new olpf, but extra highlight protection just for itself, couldn`t be achieved by exposing at 1280 ISO for instance?
 
So this is how I understand it. Side by side, set to raw view which is now 800, OLPF v1 and v2 look the same brightness. This means that the raw recording and view is calibrated differently, v2 is actually letting less light hit the sensor. Middle grey is shifted to favor highlights or lowlights though, so v2 will have better highlight handling.

So theoretically yes you could expose OLPF v1 at say 2000 to protect highlights and still get a clean image after bringing up the darks in post. I will know for sure soon because I have a Dragon with OLPF v1 on the way...
 
Mike P. said:
I still haven't heard about this (nor could I test it since no Dragon's I've used had the OLPF1 in them), but could you not just expose down a stop or two (expose at ISO3200 to protect the highlights) in order to get the same highlight range as the OLPF2? Don't get me wrong, your curve in RCXp would probably look pretty messed up (in order to reintroduce exposure in the now-crushed lows), but wouldn't it have the same effect?
Click to expand...
But wouldn't you then have the same noise issues that people are having with v2 olpf? You've now set your 18% gray card (say at 2000 iso) 1.3 stops darker than at 800, and you would then have to bring it up 1.3 stops in rec 709 space which would introduce noise. In early test that were out on the web v 1olpf had about 6 to 6.5 stops highlight latitude, colors looked good, and was without noise. All at 800 iso. That sounds pretty good to me. With v2 olpf, you may have more highlight latitude (at 800 iso), but everyone says to expose at 320 iso. Doing so immediately takes 1.3 stops of highlight latitude and shifts it from brights to darks. You are now left with the same highlight latitude as v1 (and same overall dynamic range) only at 320 iso instead of 800 iso.
 
Mark Wuerthner said:
But wouldn't you then have the same noise issues that people are having with v2 olpf? You've now set your 18% gray card (say at 2000 iso) 1.3 stops darker than at 800, and you would then have to bring it up 1.3 stops in rec 709 space which would introduce noise. In early test that were out on the web v 1olpf had about 6 to 6.5 stops highlight latitude, colors looked good, and was without noise. All at 800 iso. That sounds pretty good to me. With v2 olpf, you may have more highlight latitude (at 800 iso), but everyone says to expose at 320 iso. Doing so immediately takes 1.3 stops of highlight latitude and shifts it from brights to darks. You are now left with the same highlight latitude as v1 (and same overall dynamic range) only at 320 iso instead of 800 iso.
Click to expand...

No matter what- v2 OLPF is letting less light and hit the sensor, it is a darker filter so therefore you will inherently have more noise
Than v1
 
Hi, here is a snapshot, not scaled but cropped in 1000 x 1000.
Red Epic M Dragon OLPF V2 @ 2000iso

I don't think the Dragon with this OLPF V2 is a real multipurpose camera.
OLPF V2 only outside during the day in my opinion, not for anything else !

noise1000x1000.jpg
 
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However, post the same with DEB, and the noise is much nicer looking.
 
Yes this is Full DEB, I'm a beginner with Redcine, I've made a snapshot in Full Res.
I hope I'm missing something, it will make me happy !
 
Akin A said:
I asked in another thread, but do you guys know how many stops better in the shadows the Low Light OLPF on Dragon is, vs MX?
(I read where you guys said Dragon Low Light OLPF is 1.3 stops better in shadows than Highlight OLPF)
Click to expand...

A little less than one stop, or so. But it seems it depends on content, as it responds to light a bit differently. Sometimes might give you a touch more than one stop over MX. Other problems aside (orbs etc), OLPF 01 is an excellent low light device, as MX was already very good, and it is a bit better.

One stop more or less might not sound like much, but it means you need HALF as much wattage on set, so it's actually a big deal.

I can't wait for the orbs and other issues to be resolved in an OLPF 03 that has that same sensitivity but without problems- that thing will really rock.
 
Paul Morales said:
Hi, here is a snapshot, not scaled but cropped in 1000 x 1000.
Red Epic M Dragon OLPF V2 @ 2000iso

I don't think the Dragon with this OLPF V2 is a real multipurpose camera.
OLPF V2 only outside during the day in my opinion, not for anything else !
Click to expand...


What does this image prove? I'm confused.
 
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