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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

For the Love of GOD, can I please deliver my footage!

bobbystone said:
Hmm, just what information do you need? Here's what I'd like to do.

1. Shoot footage on the RED
2. Open Footage in RCX, grade footage, and render to Apple Quicktime in ProRes
3. Open said quicktimes to find that they do NOT have a 30 pixel black bar across the bottom of the screen, and that they DO look somewhat like the grade I created.

That really doesn't seem like a lot to ask from a camera I've spent several thousand dollars on. As for details, I gave you what I considered the important facts, but I'll give them again.

RED #1313 wit MX Sensor, build 30.0.1
Redcine-X build 261
Apple Powerbook with 10.6.4

And yes, I will take the valium now.
Click to expand...

Get PremierePro CS5. Drop on the timeline export what ever you want - be sure to have enough RAM and scratch disk, PP gets hungry when working with 4k R3D.
 
I'm sorry, but mixing current versions of QT and RED stuff with older versions of FCP will get you into all sorts of trouble. Get current FCP. Works for us day-in day-out.

But, as you said, Alexa has her charms. These folks learned quickly, first copying RED's marketing style: early announcements with CAD renders before there was a product, tests from a sensor in an aluminum box prototype shown at all public events and very aggressive pricing ( yes, it is, compared to D20/21 ). And now they have quite a few beta cameras all over the planet and reviews are streaming in. Better watch out, RED!

But it's not all RED's fault. They decided very early to tie themselves closely to the Mac, but Apple became lazy with their pro machines and software when the $$$$$$ started coming in from iPhones and iPads. RCX is trying to overcome this, but as you can see, it still has rough edges.

What can you do? Well, get CS5 (on Mac or PC), it's much cheaper than the price difference for the Alexa…
 
Uli Plank said:
I'm sorry, but mixing current versions of QT and RED stuff with older versions of FCP will get you into all sorts of trouble. Get current FCP. Works for us day-in day-out.

But, as you said, Alexa has her charms. These folks learned quickly, first copying RED's marketing style: early announcements with CAD renders before there was a product, tests from a sensor in an aluminum box prototype shown at all public events and very aggressive pricing ( yes, it is, compared to D20/21 ). And now they have quite a few beta cameras all over the planet and reviews are streaming in. Better watch out, RED!

But it's not all RED's fault. They decided very early to tie themselves closely to the Mac, but Apple became lazy with their pro machines and software when the $$$$$$ started coming in from iPhones and iPads. RCX is trying to overcome this, but as you can see, it still has rough edges.

What can you do? Well, get CS5 (on Mac or PC), it's much cheaper than the price difference for the Alexa…
Click to expand...


Yep, I agree. I LOVE the RED even despite it's ergonomic deficiencies and it's weight, it can make amazing images, but I feel RED is more concerned with new hardware when they haven't finished the software to support R1 and hence the rest of the line. And when you get to Epic, it ain't going to be that much cheaper than alexa. Read Art Adams review. The reality is, you have to be able to edit and work with the great footage that the camera shots, and RED is WAY behind the curve on that. My issue is that it this is the one aspect that they don't seem to "get" No workflow = worthless camera. A block of gold aint' worth a damn if you got nothing to trade it for.
 
A Clue!

Hmm. I've just figured out that the black bar across my screen is proportional to the debayer setting used. on 1/8 debayer the black bar is much thicker than 1/2 And on full debayer the bar is non-existant or 1 pixel tall. Does this clue help?
 
While I feel your pain, I also feel you are being rather unfair to RED and making threats to ditch it for competitors smacks of throwing your toys out of your pram syndrome!

There are in the region of 8000 RED cameras currently in use and the current post workflow works efficiently for the majority of users. Could it be improved? Yes. Has it already improved? Yes, in an incredible way.

It is clear that the problem here is local to you and your camera/post equipment so I suggest you liaise with RED privately and let them help you out instead of publicly mocking them and making threats to move to a competitor.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh here but I do feel you are being rather unfair to RED.

I wish you well and hope you find your solution.

Best wishes

Scott
 
bobbystone said:
Yep, I agree. I LOVE the RED even despite it's ergonomic deficiencies and it's weight, it can make amazing images, but I feel RED is more concerned with new hardware when they haven't finished the software to support R1 and hence the rest of the line. And when you get to Epic, it ain't going to be that much cheaper than alexa. Read Art Adams review. The reality is, you have to be able to edit and work with the great footage that the camera shots, and RED is WAY behind the curve on that. My issue is that it this is the one aspect that they don't seem to "get" No workflow = worthless camera. A block of gold aint' worth a damn if you got nothing to trade it for.
Click to expand...

No offense but plenty of us work with RED workflow on a daily basis. With no issues at all. If you can't work it out find someone who can or don't advertise yourself as someone who can deal with RED footage...
 
As I said, it works for us too.
But I wouldn't skimp on the software after buying that camera. Upgrade to FC7 or CS5!
 
I, like many people, have sometimes felt handicapped when working with RED footage. I don't think he is being unfair to RED by posting how much he doesn't like the post-workflow. This isn't supposed to be a communistic community. Actually, it would be RED who was unfair to everybody who bought the camera and had a horrible time with delivery of footage. Not everybody completely understands this stuff and for many people who say 'it's so easy' probably didn't get to that point so easily or have enough money to afford everything that is needed to maneuver through the RED workflow. I have been learning about the RED post workflow for a month now through FCP7, Color, After Effects, REDCINE-X, REDrushes, Clipfinder, PPro CS5 and I can tell you that I do not have the knowledge to deliver onto any format that would be asked of me. Not one camera format has forced me to learn and use 4 different softwares.

I believe it is good to have people like bobbystone on this forum saying what they want because a good and "fair" company has to listen to its costumers and sometimes change their workflow based on the customer's needs. Also, a "fair" company should not act like they are "gifting" their customers with an amazing product and disregard the little guys' problems with post-workflow while they are spending and giving them tens of thousands of dollars. You must understand that the product you own is not worth nearly as much as you bought it for and if you have come to believe that you have been gifted with something after spending hard-earned tens of thousands of dollars on it, then you have fallen into a marketing trap.

I know these people have produced an amazing camera but there is no need to act as if somebody is royalty when you are investing in his crown. In the end, I enjoy the camera and the opportunity to practice high-end imagery at a lower cost rate than most cameras. But, I do not enjoy the grinding of time I have had to spend figuring out how to begin to work with MY products. And I know this doesn't go for everybody so there is no need to say you have had only success with the camera. I'm speaking for the frustrated customers, unhappy clients, disillusioned renters, and people who put so much time and effort into buying the camera that they can't just afford to go out in an hour and buy Final Cut Suite 3 or PPro.

I think a nice solution would be to create a thorough manual which explains the post-workflow in all sorts of circumstances. Sell it if you want, but please make something that won't have me going on this site just because I'm having issues with my product.

PS. I can't imagine the post-workflow of the Epic when it comes out. Now THAT is going to be a grind for new comers.
 
I think many are forgetting that its been very slow for RED to catch up on the software side of things for sure. In my case I've been shooting red over 2 years and only just now feel that the software is just getting there. But i also will admit I've spent a bit on RR card, latest FCP and keeping up with RED boards. So admittedly you have to be at the edge of your seat to keep up with the new software developments/upgrades etc....from RED to keep your workflow chugging along. Being merely a shooter, i've spent many of painful hours at Reduser finding answers and trying new workflows. In fact i'd say my workflow has changed 3 times--major changes and of course each one for the better, but you have to admit it's not for everyone. if you don't have the time to stay on top of RED then it may not be for you --not you particularly Bobby, but anyone.

That said, I'm now deleting individual files from RED upgrades and uploading FCS3 again in order to get back on track. I guess i'm able to take the pain, and am happy to have jumped the train early and stay on the learning curve. I do however know a lot of users i work with or shooters, that are continually perplexed at the ever-changing workflow---I'm not talking post house workflow where you HAVE to be on top of this daily, but from shooters perspective. I know when i walked out and shot on any of the pro pani or sony cameras I could walk back inside and cut my prores files and send to the producer---DONE. Red is a different beast with gremlins popping up from time to time and for some....i suppose never.

Good luck, get your software up to date, delete files as mentioned above and then re-install FCS3 and you should see improvement. And debayering i'd always done at full.....not sure about others, but that allows me best image. And stay on top of updates as one minor thing can bog you down.
 
What Uli and Brian said - check out CS5.

It makes a mockery of Alexa's Shoot/Edit ProRes campaign.

I can shoot 4.5K on my M-X camera today, literally drag and drop the R3D clip into Premiere Pro CS5 and edit. No transcoding, nothing. Online at 4.5K. No need to double your hard drive space for ProRes versions of your footage.

Red. 4.5K RAW. Shoot. Edit. Online, no transcoding needed. It really is that easy.

Give the 30 day demo a whirl. Allow it to update to 5.01, install the red3importer plugin from labs.adobe.com and off you go.

HTH

Paul
 
Paul Leeming said:
What Uli and Brian said - check out CS5.

It makes a mockery of Alexa's Shoot/Edit ProRes campaign.

I can shoot 4.5K on my M-X camera today, literally drag and drop the R3D clip into Premiere Pro CS5 and edit. No transcoding, nothing. Online at 4.5K. No need to double your hard drive space for ProRes versions of your footage.

Red. 4.5K RAW. Shoot. Edit. Online, no transcoding needed. It really is that easy.

Give the 30 day demo a whirl. Allow it to update to 5.01, install the red3importer plugin from labs.adobe.com and off you go.

HTH
Paul
Click to expand...

Well....i'd agree with you, but CS5 today, DaVinci Reslove tomorrow and those of us FCP for 10+ years.....awaiting FCP to deliever something.....who knows how many others in the pipeline. Why i don't go CS5---downloaded 30 day trial and could not get through my thick head--or rather did not put much effort to admit into learning it....I went back to FCP and like that workflow or should i say know that workflow. I know if i go CS5, something better comes tomorrow and before i know it i've spent countless days learning a new software and end up back at another third of fourth party software. I guess i'm saying that go with what you know. FCP and prores works just fine. Especially when you have a RR card and your deliverables ARE prores.
 
bobbystone said:
Anybody want to tell me why my footage has a big black line at the bottom of the frame?

Shot 4KHD, rendered in RCX 261 1280x720

Oh, and when I switched to 1080 to see if it would still be there I get an error when the movie won't open that says "The File couldn't be found"

And, oh by the way, my rendered prores files STILL don't exactly match what I see in RCX.

I'm REALLLLLLLLLY getting weary of all this crap. Alexa is looking good to me.
Click to expand...

When I've usually had this kind of issue its been with the pixel aspect ratio not being recognised correctly. My advice would render out some other format like TIFF or TGA instead of Quicktime (I use Premiere Pro on a custom built PC). Import these in to your editing system. Adobe Premiere Pro just imports RED files in with ease. I would then do any colour correction in Colorista or something similar.

Can't really see why you are having this issue when everyone else seems to be working fine with RED files. I would always suggest getting yourself up to speed on RED before shelling out for a camera or even hiring one to do an important job. Just seems common sense to me.
 
Line a bottom of frame ....

Line a bottom of frame ....

Anybody want to tell me why my footage has a big black line at the bottom of the frame?

Shot 4KHD, rendered in RCX 261 1280x720

Oh, and when I switched to 1080 to see if it would still be there I get an errorwhen the movie won't open that says "The File couldn't be found"
Click to expand...

I just tried the exact same thing with 4K HD and RC 261 export to 1280 x 720 and it's working fine for me...

Want to talk through your settings?
 
I think many of the problems that happen in post are due to a different set of shooters. I do not mean this in any offense, but the camera is designed to follow a film like workflow. The files come out of camera and go for processing, to whatever codec/ resolution you want. to do the processing you ned to be up to date with all the variable settings that can go wrong. In my case usually trial and error. then it goes to an editor (unless you use the suggested CS5 method mentioned above) FCP7 imports the files through log and transfer just fine, but if you don't want large files then redcine is your only option. As was mentioned full debayer will always look better, but if you don't have a rocket card ( a highly recommended purchase) it can take an insane amount of time to render. having purchased a rocket card myself awhile back, I am no longer in the world of 1/8 debayers and such, thus i am of little help to your current situation. I will say this, I did not have the issues mentioned when i was working with the tools. I also spent most of my time studying all the workflows and everything else before my camera arrived. I am not rich. I am not even moderately well off. But when it comes to my career, I understand that i must be able to either put the money into the tools that will help me keep up, or choose another route. If the route of RED is not working for you, and you are convinced that another route would improve your career, then, as much as it pains me to say it, take the other route. This is not a shot at anyones competence, heaven knows i have my own issues from time to time, just a friendly suggestion.
 
i sympathize

i sympathize

bobbystone said:
A Clue!

Hmm. I've just figured out that the black bar across my screen is proportional to the debayer setting used. on 1/8 debayer the black bar is much thicker than 1/2 And on full debayer the bar is non-existant or 1 pixel tall. Does this clue help?
Click to expand...

Bobby,

I understand your frustration. I had the same issue for a while, but only with footage from a certain shoot/camera. I posted a thread about it but never found any answers:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43095

I sent in all the logs and files that RED asked for, but they weren't able to reproduce the problem, and seemed annoyed when I kept emailing/posting about it so I gave up.

Luckily we got a RedRocket card shortly after and I don't render anything less than Full Debayer now.

Good Luck.

-James Rayburn
 
There is indeed a software upscaling bug related to this particular configuration. We are looking into it. If you do not have a RR, then the temporary fix is to set your export presets to use a debayer resolution greater than your output resolution. Hopefully we'll have a fix out soon.

Cheers,
David
 
David Ibbitson said:
There is indeed a software upscaling bug related to this particular configuration. We are looking into it. If you do not have a RR, then the temporary fix is to set your export presets to use a debayer resolution greater than your output resolution. Hopefully we'll have a fix out soon.

Cheers,
David
Click to expand...

.....that is HOWEVER no EXCUSE for checking all your software getting up to date red updates etc....I'd get the sofware up to date and make that an area where you know you have no problems.
 
Half, quarter debayer

Half, quarter debayer

I have the same problem only when I use debayer settings with something else than full. If you use full debayer the lines disapear. Stange thing is that the line is not always there neither is the same size.
 
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