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Focusing, or Image Sharpness, using Canon stills and LCD screen.

Patrik Kisucky

Patrik Kisucky

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I would like to know, if anyone else is having hard time recording sharp images using still lenses with the Scarlet, and relying on the LCD screen. I only use manual focus, and I know there is a square that turns green or yellow when the camera is properly focused, but I'm just not perfectly happy with the image sharpness. I shot an interview with EX1 and Scarlet, and the EX1 footage is crisp and sharp. I was able to make the Scarlet footage look sharper in red cine, but if there is a thread how to achieve a proper focus with Scarlet, or make the image sharper in post, please let me know. For this particular shoot I used Canon 24-70, f2.8 (perhaps soft lens?).
 
Arnold F. said:
It is possible your back focus requires adjustment.
Click to expand...

Backfocus isn't so critical unless you are pulling focus by lens distance markings (which is a horrible idea on the 24-70) or using the lens on a camera with a mirror reflex AF sensor.

If you want to make your images as sharp as they can be, use image magnify (1:1 view) to check focus before you roll and manually set your focus there. Also choose your aperture wisely, too wide and you risk losing focus with any movement, too narrow and you'll get softening from diffraction, your best bet is f4-f8 if your primary interest is sharp images.

Oh also don't make the mistake that some make and assume any zoom lens is parfocal. Any time you change your focal length, re-check your focus manually, ideally with 1:1 mode.
 
yeah, first thing i'd do is put on the best prime you have in your arsenal. Its the reason I don't own any zoom lenses, their sharpness just doesn't get close enough to a prime. I own an EX1 as well and its a pretty sharp picture in-camera, but also boosts it considerably. were you shooting in 4K on the scarlet though?
 
I was trying to use the focus assist, but it's not always working. Perhaps not enough light. I was shooting 2K, is that a problem? I'll try the zoom, and my 50mm 1.4. I just bought this 24-70, and it seems very soft. I also own Tokina 11-16, New Canon 70-200 2.8, and Canon 50mm 1.4. I'll run more tests with all of these lenses, but like I said the 24-70 seems very soft.
 
I think you answered your own question... when you first view the image in RCX, what are your debayer settings? Unless you are seeing full debayer, your not seeing everything there is to see. From there, you can do a great job getting exactly the look you want. R3D footage is never the best it's going to get coming right out of the camera.

Meanwhile, the EX1 footage is, if I am not mistaken, essentially sharpened and processed right in the camera as it is recorded. It's very possible it looks better to start but doesn't have too far to go from there.
 
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Agreed, EX1 footage is designed to be sharp(ened) 1080p ready for playback, whereas Scarlet footage will depend a lot on how you are viewing it. How are you viewing it? Are you saying your transcodes are soft? Or your monitor in RCX? Please be more clear about what you are seeing. There is no reason your Scarlet with that lens shouldn't be capturing footage that is far more detailed than 1080p EX1 footage, if it doesn't look sharp it may not be that it is out of focus, it may just be that you are viewing or processing it suboptimally for judging sharpness. On the other hand it could be out of focus. If you post samples we could probably tell you immediately what your issue is.
 
2K will be noticeably softer than scaling from 3K or above down to HD. Always shoot 3K or above unless you really need the highest varispeeds!

Shooting wide open aperture will be softer than stopped down 2 or 3 stops on most lenses.

Also, expect to need sharpening in post as Red cameras have zero in camera sharpening.

What shutter speed and frame rate were you using?
 
Here are my comments about using still lenses.
1. first, you do need to set backfocus at least to the point you know you can get sharp focus--I've had backfocus so far out before that i could not achieve focus at all.
2. shooting 2k (windowed sensor) IS A REAL issue and IS softer. so that might be part of your dilema.
3. focus using manual still lenses on such a big sensor is really critical and requires constant attention 1:1 and edge focus are needed tools.
4. many zoom lenses DO NOT hold focus through the zoom range. So if you change to a different zoom setting, better check focus.

i use still lenses on r1 and epic all the time and continually pay a lot of attention to these issues. especially in the genre i work in with wildlife...so i've had to cross this road a lot using still nikon glass.
 
Thank you very much everyone for great tips. I'll run a bunch of tests tonight, and will try all your tips Johnny. Will post pictures later.
 
Johnny Friday said:
4. many zoom lenses DO NOT hold focus through the zoom range. So if you change to a different zoom setting, better check focus.
Click to expand...

The SALT tests only noted the Canon 16-35 as "not par-focal". Do you know of others or is there a possibility that the issue you are seeing is again related to back focus?
 
When you shoot in 2K, you're not really shooting in 2K, but rather 2K * 80%.

Both the Epic and Scarlet are really 4K cameras (5120 * 80%), except the Scarlet can't really shoot video in 4K at a usable video frame rate, as outlined by Jannard:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?40067-Thoughts-and-Tips&p=539848&viewfull=1#post539848

For best sharpness with Scarlet, shoot at the maximum # of pixels you can (different for stills or for video), debayer on full, sharpen in post.

You might also look at NeatVideo to de-noise, which will really add a lot to your image. http://www.neatvideo.com/

De-noise, then sharpen. NeatVideo will do also sharpen, but I'm unsure if that's the best choice for sharpening (hopefully someone who's done a lot of testing will chime in).

BTW - I've seen a lot of videos shot with the 'old' 24-70 that seem to debunk the theory you can't get sharp video from it (of course, a prime is always better), but ... look at lens tests where they compare lenses, and often there's zero difference after about 3 stops. All the tests are done wide open.
 
Patrik Kisucky said:
I was trying to use the focus assist, but it's not always working. Perhaps not enough light. I was shooting 2K, is that a problem? I'll try the zoom, and my 50mm 1.4. I just bought this 24-70, and it seems very soft. I also own Tokina 11-16, New Canon 70-200 2.8, and Canon 50mm 1.4. I'll run more tests with all of these lenses, but like I said the 24-70 seems very soft.
Click to expand...

2k is simply a quarter as sharp as 4k... It makes great difference since your only use a part of the sensor.
 
Hi guys,

I'm starting to get slightly worried myself as I've just starting using my Scarlet for wildlife shooting and the footage coming out of the camera looks really soft. Unfortunately 2K is essential for me for the highest framerate possible and to achieve decent long lens work. It looks sharp in the bomb EVF, but when I apply full sharpening in RedCine X it doesn't seem to do a lot, if anything to the sharpness. I went for the Red over a DVCPro HD Varicam because I was advised the codec/resolution would be much better and the Varicam only shoots 720P and upscales I believe. Would it really be the case that the image out of the Scarlet at 2K would be inferior to such old formats like DVCPro HD? I'm pushing things much more than the 24-70 as I'm using the Canon 100-400L with the mk3 2X extender and have stuff at 800mm. I know this is pushing the optics but with L series glass I would expect to get a half decent picture out of the camera. I've tried to upload an R3D still here but can't seem to do it! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks,

Pete
 
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