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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Focus....

Phil Jordan said:
Aren't you just a bucket of icy cold water. Any of the ones you mentioned online with their customers everyday and have 5400 posts?
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Is that a rhetorical question or do you want a list? :)

I semi-regularly grab drinks with one of them.

Software tends to be more approachable than the old 'Big Iron' companies and RED seems to follow the philosophies of a high end production software company than hardware. Release betas. Keep the user involved. Continually respond to an evolving market with free updates or updates and upgrades while on a support contract. Have public forums where the users can directly interact with the developers and decision makers... etc etc.

It's probably pretty shocking for someone coming from the Canon way of doing things, but it's the MO of most niche software companies. Case in point Lucas Wilson frequenting these here parts of the internet. It's a nice change from a hardware company to follow suit because it's a good way to run a business.
 
While you're characterizing lenses would it be within the scope of the project to 'improve' the lenses while you're at it? i.e. correct for breathing w/ zoom lenses etc?
 
joshua csehak said:
Good point. I was thinking about it from a cinema or ENG viewpoint. Myopic, as usual ;) How does the Phantom do it? If I'm not mistaken, people use the Phantom on sidelines for big-budget live sports, and everything seems to be focused well.
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Stepping out of the shadows...

Most models of Phantom cameras have larger sensors than the RED One. The images are kept in focus by skilled camera operators and assistant camerapeople. The NFL use them for sidelines shooting with wide open zoom lenses and they will pull focus with one finger while MANUALLY zooming with another from the same hand. It is a thing of beauty to see and shows the skills of a true craftsperson. And the focus is almost always dead perfect. I saw tons of raw footage from last year's NFL season that processed through our Post Services, and there were stunning images on a consistent basis.

I have nothing against features such as an advanced autofocus system, and I'm sure that there are many times that this technology will be very useful. But a Navy officer once told me a little story. It seems that a certain class of subs have amazing fly-by-wire controls, and the entire vessel can be steered by electronic interface. There's also a backup manual system that is available should the fly-by-wire system fail. The sub captains forced their men to always use the backup systems. Because in event of emergency they wanted the men to have the skill to control the ship manually.

I like autofocus, but I also like having a tactile interconnect between myself and the task I am performing. In an intimate scene, there can be a real connection between the actors and the Camera Operator & AC. I always liked that. To each his own. When the camera can be fully controlled remotely I might shoot a movie from home in my pajamas.

Here's a PSA shot by NFL Films on a Phantom last year. Everything done manually. In this case there was an AC pulling focus but it was done manually as was the zoom, and all of the operating was handheld (using the DP's personal rig that he's used forever with an adapter plate from Abel to fit it to the Phantom). The link is at the bottom of the article.

http://blog.abelcine.com/2009/11/24/nfl-and-obama-encourage-kids-to-play60/


Back to the shadows...
 
AF on Canon and Nikon lenses

AF on Canon and Nikon lenses

While you're characterizing lenses would it be within the scope of the project to 'improve' the lenses while you're at it? i.e. correct for breathing w/ zoom lenses etc?
Click to expand...

Sorry, that's a fundamental characteristic of the lens ;-)
 
I agree Mitch. Cheers. There is more to consider however.

Personally there is nothing I want more than to work with the best artists of each craft. The ones who manage to stand out by honing their skills to a degree that allows them to do things others avoid. Getting to higher percentiles of any practice requires exponential effort, but that's where greatness lives, where the air is thin but the stars shine brighter.

I would bet Mr. Jannard --the Jim we know to keep plowing ahead against all odds-- fully understand what you are talking about, and probably couldn't agree more. He climbed to a mountain top before, and IMO he is more than half-way to a higher second summit.

In the end tools are just that, tools. Unless EPIC becomes self aware and an sweeps the 2011 Oscars (knock on wood) the artists you speak of, whether established or new-born, will see nothing but new possibilities in this amazing new camera.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Stepping out of the shadows...

Most models of Phantom cameras have larger sensors than the RED One. The images are kept in focus by skilled camera operators and assistant camerapeople. The NFL use them for sidelines shooting with wide open zoom lenses and they will pull focus with one finger while MANUALLY zooming with another from the same hand. It is a thing of beauty to see and shows the skills of a true craftsperson. And the focus is almost always dead perfect. I saw tons of raw footage from last year's NFL season that processed through our Post Services, and there were stunning images on a consistent basis.

I have nothing against features such as an advanced autofocus system, and I'm sure that there are many times that this technology will be very useful. But a Navy officer once told me a little story. It seems that a certain class of subs have amazing fly-by-wire controls, and the entire vessel can be steered by electronic interface. There's also a backup manual system that is available should the fly-by-wire system fail. The sub captains forced their men to always use the backup systems. Because in event of emergency they wanted the men to have the skill to control the ship manually.

I like autofocus, but I also like having a tactile interconnect between myself and the task I am performing. In an intimate scene, there can be a real connection between the actors and the Camera Operator & AC. I always liked that. To each his own. When the camera can be fully controlled remotely I might shoot a movie from home in my pajamas.

Here's a PSA shot by NFL Films on a Phantom last year. Everything done manually. In this case there was an AC pulling focus but it was done manually as was the zoom, and all of the operating was handheld (using the DP's personal rig that he's used forever with an adapter plate from Abel to fit it to the Phantom). The link is at the bottom of the article.

http://blog.abelcine.com/2009/11/24/nfl-and-obama-encourage-kids-to-play60/


Back to the shadows...
Click to expand...

Mitch... no question that manual shooting is here to stay. There are also some very interesting situations where this type of AF can be extremely helpful. You choose. You can do it either way you want whenever you want. No other pro camera offers you both options. We believe in advancement of technology that gives you choices.

Jim
 
Nicelly done Mr. Jannard...i believe in choices too.
Keep coming...
;)
 
I have always wanted proper auto focus. A lot of the shots we do on Segways would be well served by auto.

I wonder, will you be able to slave the focus on 2 cams for 3d?
 
I can't see any downside to having AF as an option. Now, if you only had AF no manual focus that would be a different story but even if you only use it once a year, it's still nice to have that option. Very Exciting and can't wait to see exactly how Red does AF!!
 
Lee Saxon said:
This is so bizarre.

Why lobby for LESS features? If you don't like AF, just turn it off.
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You tend to lobby for less if you don't have them. :-)

Jim
 
I knew there had to be an interesting new thread when I saw over 700 people in the Recon section!
Very exciting!
I'm so glad the bug has been obliterated! And the touch screen autofocus sounds outstanding!
Now, off to bed. Thanks for the great hour of reading!
 
Lee Saxon said:
This is so bizarre.

Why lobby for LESS features? If you don't like AF, just turn it off.
Click to expand...

Seriously! Look; I for one am anticipating brilliant AF, and a new way of shooting.. one that can be relied on.

No one is typing DOS commands anymore.

Higher systems of tech offer higher levels of functioning, in ways that we can never quite prepare for or adapt to. Shooting will get better, because we don't have to bother with something a machine can do...

What I'm trying to say is.... :)
 
I think it is great that RED has retained the legacy focus system (manual) for those who have spent years entrenched in that way of shooting. But the new touchscreen system being available on the same camera will allow those who want to move forward the ability to do so, and those who want to rely on their ingrained muscle/memory way of doing things can still do so. Unlike some new off-the-shelf product that just puts all the new bells and whistles on to be labeled as the next new thing, RED is transitional. Maybe because upper management has a foot in the past and a hand in the future. Remembering where they have been while seeing where things can go is a rare occurrence in a population. Luckily, our camera maker has assembled a coven of these rare beings.
 
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