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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

First night shoot with my scarlet.

Daniel Kunz said:
@Gunleik
I respect your answer, any advice on how you would light the city night scene? ;-) you simply can't.
That's like alot of cinematographers that asked vincent laforet how he lit the bridge in the car scene in "reverie". He didn't. The camera was good enough in lowlight for the bridge to light up in the night.
And in 9 months, when Jim will be posting Frames of the Dragon Sensor, everybody will go "wow this is a new era in cinema... i love how i can light the foreground to match the wonderful nightscene in the background! Less light needed!! "
been there, done that. even the super cheap Sony Nex5N is better in lowlight than the MX sensor.


THERE IS NO PERFECT CAMERA That does everything right.. there will never be a gyro-stabilized Smartphone-sized, 16K Medium-Format-Sensor sized camera that shoots 8000fps for 24hours in pitch black with 40 Stops of DR with a Raw codec @5Mbps in Bullet-time-array with a PL/C/EOS/Nikon/Leica-M/E/A mount

But there are camera's for the right job.
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Good points.

I'd probaly have shot it wide open at 1.3 on an 18 or 24 mm MasterPrime.
But I know that is not a commonly available option.
Canon or Nikon highspeed lenses are widely available, though...

That would have ridded that image of most of its problems.

But of course you are right. You cannot light a scene like that and probably there are cameras that handle natural light challenges better than the Epic. Right tool for the job and all. I just say that THAT isn't the reason I have an Epic. The image carracteristics and flexibility are...
 
Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig said:
A colorist is not Jesus or Santa Claus. You can't do miracles even on a moving pic in RAW.
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You can always do miracles. Ask either one of those fellas.

But for serious... I know you're still upset, okay. When you're done feeling sorry, try to look at things from a higher perspective (refer back to Jesus and the Claus on that one) and I think you'll be content.

Every single camera that exists has noise. In the end, the main differences come in the organic/inorganic texture or "feel" of the noise, the ability to reach high ISO settings, and it's forgiveness in reduction. Most cameras use noise reduction in camera, which muddles and softens the image before you even get a chance to look at it, while (of course) also reducing the noise. That's totally fine, that's how those cameras work. But RED does not use any noise reduction... at all.

RED footage is meant to be processed after the fact. If you don't want to manipulate and tweak your footage after it's shot, you don't want to be shooting RED. Which is also totally fine, that's just how the camera is meant to work. (Not saying it can't be done, especially using 'looks', I'm just sayin) Film almost always goes through noise reduction, not just in lower light situations. RED, in low light situations, is probably going to want some noise reduction - but even if you don't reduce it, I think the noise "feels" pretty good, and you've got to have some funky grading or a relatively high ISO for it to get distracting. In that case, fix your grading or reduce that stuff...

Here's a tip - there are always going to be certain portions of a particular image that have a lot of noise: like the darks or a solid wall, for example. So isolate those areas using keys, mattes, power windows, or however else you want and reduce those areas selectively or more intensely than the rest of the image. There's no reason to muddle up the entire shot when the entire shot isn't displaying noise :)

There may be chips that are better than the MX at low-light. I'm not saying that RED cameras are the best for every person/shoot. Check out Zacuto's Great Camera Shootout for a really balanced survey of some of the cameras that are out there right now. Their upcoming test (I think) will allow for each camera to be used as it is designed to be used - which should help each camera perform at it's peak. The GH2 will make it's way in as well - it does seem like a nice little camera, probably the best DSLR out there right now. Hopefully they will release something even better before the test starts though... in any case, we should see a really cool "Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout" next year, with some really cool cameras being released and on the horizon. Maybe the dragon will come out of the cave to feed... :)

Funny that the best DSLR cameras are the best because they've been 'hacked' (Magic Lantern, GH2 hack, etc) - which is pretty much what RED does... except that everyone gets really excited when a new hack comes out, but complains about RED's firmware updates... oh well :) Maybe RED should just release a really sucky shipping firmware, and push the updates underground? Seems backwards, but people might complain less. Or we could get used to progression ;)
 
Man,

I know what you mean...

This whole night shot noise thing has me down...

:)

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nice shots, David. But the noise is really clunky and distracting... oh, those are the christmas lights ;)

and yes, Florence is amazing!
 
Thanks for posting, Will. Will play with it in a couple of hours. Concerning noise, let me tell you this: I've been playing around with the stills and moving footage posted here by other redusers, and after applying Magic bullet denoiser, the image indeed becomes cleaner (its not the best denoting plugin, neat video performs better, but it was the one I had available). One of those shots in particular, a close up in slow motion, is noisy in raw, but after this becomes smooth and noiseless, while keeping detail I would never find in a 5D or 7D, for example. You have to know what you get with this camera: its pure raw. You have to do your own noise reduction. Its not the best out of the box clean pictures camera. However, know your post production and (like film), work on processing the footage and it will look fantastic.
 
David Battistella said:
EPIC X 111

Everyone knows I am a 320 ISO man. I don't like to push past 800.

Maybe it's some voigtlaender glass...

I can't remember... :)
Click to expand...

beautiful shots man, this thread began with an 800 ISO shot, i wish the same was done at other ISO's. I never had a doubt about the MX sensor, that's why i mentioned that either something is wrong or a proper test is in order at different ISO's.
 
I've found this thread really informative. It actually defines ( for me anyway ) one of the fundamental mis-understood Red principles with NR . Whilst I'm not a fan of software plugins for everything, I can see with my own eyes the benefits of this workflow. Any suggestions for a good NR programme ?

P.S. The opening night cityscape is a remarkable image. Wow!

A question for Gunliek, Would you attempt this scene with Alexa ? Unfair question I know, but just trying to get a sense of how a lowly Scarlet X ;) compares to the "now camera" .

P.S.S. David your low light shots where astounding as well but I assume it wasn't done on a Scarlet.
 
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The Scarlet X uses the exact same sensor and latitude as the epic, just some data and frame rate differences
 
@ Roshdi

I know that but Scarlet has "less boards" so there are differences & not just in frame rates & rez. Its good to see material from a Scarlet it helps create very positive impressions of the camera whilst Epic X already has so many.
 
Yes also the clip of the FS100 at 6400Iso after cleaning with neat video are superb.
Sometimes we must admit the limit of every camera, and the limit for the Scarlet is the Noise at low iso.
No sense for me raw or not, after cleaning footage from Scarlet at 800Iso and scaled down to 1080 compared with footage from the Fs100 at 6400Iso the FS100 win.
 
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