Mixing RED with uncompressed VDSLR's

[Andrew Rieger]

I am working on a short festival film and I am looking for the most cost effective means of capturing a high quality image. I have a couple of questions that I hope this community can answer. As good as the RED is, it is not the all in one solution that I was looking for.

I am trying to shoot on the cheap and RED rates, while good, are still a little steep to use for all the shots. Therefore, I plan to also intercut with the new Canon 1D Mark IV. I have chosen to film with the new Canon because its low light capabilities are better than the RED and I am going to be shooting as much as possible with available light.

I plan to use the RED for situations where the the Canon fails. I am a big fan of over-cranking and this is an area that the Canon falls short due to the fact that it can only over-crank in 720.

I know that some have successfully mixed RED and 7D and I hope that my workflow will yield even better results. That is where you all come in RED community.

Question #1: Do you think that 1080p is good enough for theatre projection?

Question #2: What is the best way to get the highest quality uncompressed RAW footage from the RED? (Are you all downresing 4K to to 1080p?)

Question #3: Can the RED one shoot 1080p right out of the camera?

I intend to shoot uncompressed 4:2:2 from the canon. This link explains how: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=192084

In a nutshell, do you think that through RAW shooting with the Canon and proper 1080p from the RED, I can get footage that is hard to distinguish from one camera to another?

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Question #1: Do you think that 1080p is good enough for theatre projection?

Well, George Lucas shot all the digital content in the new Star Wars movies in 1080p, so it should be fine. Also, most films go through the DI process at 2K too, which is only something like 12% more resolution.

Question #2: What is the best way to get the highest quality uncompressed RAW footage from the RED? (Are you all downresing 4K to to 1080p?)

The cleanest way (from what I hear) is to shoot 4K HD mode, which is exactly two times the length and width of HD (giving you four times the resolution). This downscales better than true 4K, which is a bit bigger at more like 4.6 times the resolution of HD.

Question #3: Can the RED one shoot 1080p right out of the camera?

No. It can do 2K, but I'd stay away from that unless you're overcranking.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Thanks, I will try to shoot on the RED One unless the Scarlet is out by then. I am looking for the best settings on both cams to make it difficult to tell the two cameras apart. I plan on adding Schneider Classic soft diffusion filters to the RED as well as the Canon but the diffusion will be stronger on the RED due to its increased resolution. Shooting uncompressed with the Canon should help as well. I really wish there was one camera that could fulfill all my needs but I believe that these two cameras are the closest that I will find and afford.

Any other advice on accomplishing this shoot?

 

[Roger Crouse]

I seem to recall a thread where Steve Gibby suggested that shooting 3k scaled down to a cleaner crisper match. But, my brain is foggy from eating too much sweet potatoes and turkey so I could be wrong. If I can find the thread I'll post a link to it here...

Here it is...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35343 But it needs to be read in context because I doubt it fits your particular scenario.

 

[Wesley Scoggins]

I have been told that you get a softer "flatter" looking image if you make sure to turn down the sharpening, contrast, and saturation on the Canon, so that it looks more like the low-contrast image that generally comes out of the Red.

This means that when you CC, you won't have to do as much to get them looking the same.

As far as theater projection is concerned, I am sure many people in the theater won't be able to tell a significant difference, especially with both footage being projected at 1080P.

People are also far more willing to be forgiving if it fits a certain aesthetic (Like much of Michel Mann's stuff where he pushes for a video-look, because he prefers the reality and immediacy of it), or if the story is interesting enough (As was the case with 'District 9', which primarily used the Red and intercut with Sony EX cameras, and Canon consumer level cameras in many scenes).

What's most important is having a good story, so overall the difference should appear minimal with good CC and interesting things going on to keep the audiences attention. The Canon is not nearly as versatile a camera, you are definitely getting a superior video source to work with with the Red, but with a operator that knows what he is doing and a good story, most of the audience won't notice, and really it should be good enough for them to not care.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Really, the use of the Canon is a stylistic choice. Some of the rigs and shots I am designing will be much to difficult to accomplish on the RED due to the size and weight. Some shots require cams even more compact than the Scarlet. In order to get some complex shots, I need a small rig that kicks out a lot of resolution and the rigs I'm working on would never support RED. I also can't afford to shoot on RED for the whole production so I am looking into Scarlet rental whenever they become available.