Firmware upgrade 4.0 - What do you think or wish might be in it for Scarlet

[Vladimir Druts]

Would certainly be amazing, but what makes you believe it's doable haven't sensor specs been posted with "maximum" and current fps, and it seemed they were pretty much already at max spec on the Scarlet, without an update of hard-ware. I hope you're right of course, I think that would really give the Scarlet weight especially amidst contenders like the F5

Heck even 4.5k WS 24fps would be amazing at the least.

Given the recent "4K" posts and why 5K is so much better for 4K delivery:

- 5Kws @ 24P
- 4Kws HDRx @ 24P
- Time-lapse and Still-mode (longer then 1sec intervals/exposures and single-frame RAW capture)
- Power management (with the ability to turn off live image processing / monitoring to allow for camera setup, etc...)

All of the above is doable and long overdue...

Peter
:reddevil:

 

[Philipe Ratton]

Because data rate is the same.

 

[Sergio Perez]

My suggestion would be that since the Red One is End of Life and selling at the red store for less than a scarlet, that The Scarlet gets upgraded to Red one specs. 4.5 k and 120fps in 2k. I think most would be happy with that.

 

[Elan Gunos]

If the prevailing notion of a true 4k is from a downsample 4.5k and above—we really ought to start referring to the Scarlet as a true 3.2k camera then.

 

[Ryan Fitzgerald]

exciting

exciting

I would be surprised if we see 5k at 24/25 fps before Dragon starts rolling out to Epic users. We may never see it at all.

Here is what's coming though:



http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ocket-1-4-28&p=1081293&viewfull=1#post1081293

Can't wait for those long exposures... Blurry highways here we come!

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

i want to see SDI signal with MENUS after firmware upgrade.Lucky im in rental company and we have two Red 5' Touch Screens i can use them after firmware upgrade but think about someone who doesnt own this how he s gonna use his SmallHD/TVlogic monitor as onboard? (redmote does the job also,dont think all the scarlet/epic owners bought this one)

 

[Peter Majtan]

Would certainly be amazing, but what makes you believe it's doable haven't sensor specs been posted with "maximum" and current fps, and it seemed they were pretty much already at max spec on the Scarlet, without an update of hard-ware. I hope you're right of course, I think that would really give the Scarlet weight especially amidst contenders like the F5

Heck even 4.5k WS 24fps would be amazing at the least.

The current bandwidth limit of the Scarlet is:

In 4K: 4096 (H) x 2160 (V) x 30 (FPS) = 265.420.800 pixels per second*

(*Note: The specs on the website say 4KHD @ 30P, but the camera indeed records full 4K (4096x2160) at 30P as well...)

So - without exceeding the CURRENT HARDWARE LIMITATIONS of the Scarlet I am asking for these new modes:

5Kws: 5120 x 2142 2.39:1
- Epic max fps: 150
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-DCI: 4558 x 2412 DCI or 1.89:1
- Epic max fps: 150 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-HD: 4434 x 2494 HD or 1.77:1
- Epic max fps: 150 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

I know (some elitist) Epic owners hate me, but hey - they seems to be pissed off with everything these days without much weight to their cries....

Peter
:reddevil:

 

[Vladimir Druts]

Interesting... Well I'm not a Red owner yet but even amidst loving SONY's F3 and amidst the release of the F5 which promises to be an incredibly powerful image making system I'm going to be purchasing a RED. I think what the company stands for is amazing and after lurking on the forums for years, showing a true interest in the desires of the consumer and being fair with pricing...

Essentially I think they will end up pushing the Scarlet as far as they possibly can.

The current bandwidth limit of the Scarlet is:

In 4K: 4096 (H) x 2160 (V) x 30 (FPS) = 265.420.800 pixels per second*

(*Note: The specs on the website say 4KHD @ 30P, but the camera indeed records full 4K (4096x2160) at 30P as well...)

So - without exceeding the CURRENT HARDWARE LIMITATIONS of the Scarlet I am asking for the these new modes:

5Kws: 5120 x 2142 2.39:1
- Epic max fps: 150
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-DCI: 4558 x 2412 DCI or 1.89:1
- Epic max fps: 150 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

4.5K-HD: 4434 x 2494 HD or 1.77:1
- Epic max fps: 150 (irrelevant - but for the sake of the argument)
- Scarlet max fps: 24

I know (some elitist) Epic owners hate me, but hey - they seems to be pissed off with everything these days without much weight to their cries....

Peter
:reddevil:

 

[Les Dittert]

If the prevailing notion of a true 4k is from a downsample 4.5k and above—we really ought to start referring to the Scarlet as a true 3.2k camera then.

More like shoot at 5K and get closer to 4K with the Scarlet or Epic.
Notice how bashful people are about posting full resolution stills from the results of their workflow ?
Maybe there is something to it. All hat and no cattle ?
Posting an 8bit jpeg is so easy. Curios how the posts are usually 1920 or worse, isn't it?

I am totally on board with the 4K thing, and have gone through extraordinary measures to make damned sure I can hit 4K real resolution.
Red has the unique advantage of having a 5K sensor in there to start closing in on a 4K resolution target.
The dilemma is as someone else stated, not to fluster the Epic owners if they decide to allow 5K to roll at sound speed.

oh, I almost forget: 4.0 wish list:

a> Auto select most appropriate black shade for current shooting setting. Ever forget to change over black shade ? Easy.
b> Open iris during 'single' focus mode, like all DSLR's do , for more accurate focus.
c> More distinct edge detect mode for focus on LCD. It's too vague.
d> Enable 5K at 24fps to achive closer to 4K final output.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Red has the unique advantage of having a 5K sensor in there to start closing in on a 4K resolution target.

With the FF of the 5K MX Sensor - RED does not "start closing in on a 4K resolution" - it DOES resolve 4K already. Back when Epic was released Jim posted measured resolution charts to support this...

The reason why people mostly post HD or smaller pics is the limitation of this forum to display it on your computer screen and the fact that it would slow dramatically loading of the forum in the browser.
Many post links to full resolution JPEGs or TIFFs...

Peter

 

[Trent Lillehaugen]

i want to see SDI signal with MENUS after firmware upgrade.Lucky im in rental company and we have two Red 5' Touch Screens i can use them after firmware upgrade but think about someone who doesnt own this how he s gonna use his SmallHD/TVlogic monitor as onboard? (redmote does the job also,dont think all the scarlet/epic owners bought this one)

We have a set of "Force Presets" (part of the "DSMC Resources" on the Download page) that allow you to setup the HDMI or HDSDI with menus without any other controls (5" touch, REDmote, etc).

 

[Mike P.]

Basing your calculations off the total "per second" fillrate isn't the lowest common denominator, but per frame is. In that case, 4.5k (4480x1920) is actually a lower resolution per frame than 4k (4096x2160). That said, I fear that WS modes require just as much processing as 16:9 modes, which is why it's not as simple as "just enabling it".

As for the 80% resolving factor ("4k" = 3.2k and "5k" = 4k, etc.), I'd definitely like to see 4.5k on Scarlet (although I'm not sure how that makes 4k... It's not even 3840.). 5k/24fps 2.4:1 would obviously be swell, though.

 

[Elan Gunos]

On the same note, for the upcoming 'SHOT ON RED Film Festival' where they are accepting only 4k and projecting 4k, footage shot on the Scarlet should not be allowed since it's not technically true 4k.

More like shoot at 5K and get closer to 4K with the Scarlet or Epic.
Notice how bashful people are about posting full resolution stills from the results of their workflow ?
Maybe there is something to it. All hat and no cattle ?
Posting an 8bit jpeg is so easy. Curios how the posts are usually 1920 or worse, isn't it?

I am totally on board with the 4K thing, and have gone through extraordinary measures to make damned sure I can hit 4K real resolution.
Red has the unique advantage of having a 5K sensor in there to start closing in on a 4K resolution target.
The dilemma is as someone else stated, not to fluster the Epic owners if they decide to allow 5K to roll at sound speed.

oh, I almost forget: 4.0 wish list:

a> Auto select most appropriate black shade for current shooting setting. Ever forget to change over black shade ? Easy.
b> Open iris during 'single' focus mode, like all DSLR's do , for more accurate focus.
c> More distinct edge detect mode for focus on LCD. It's too vague.
d> Enable 5K at 24fps to achive closer to 4K final output.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

We have a set of "Force Presets" (part of the "DSMC Resources" on the Download page) that allow you to setup the HDMI or HDSDI with menus without any other controls (5" touch, REDmote, etc).

thanks Trent!!! you guys rock!

 

[Peter Majtan]

On the same note, for the upcoming 'SHOT ON RED Film Festival' where they are accepting only 4k and projecting 4k, footage shot on the Scarlet should not be allowed since it's not technically true 4k.

Are You SERIOUS?!? Or did you forget the "oh the sarcasm" emoji...?

 

[Roger Johansen]

5k/24fps 2.4:1 would be my standard if it were available

 

[Ev Shipard]

I am happy with the current framerates, this little box satisfies all our needs bar one.
The big one would be anamorphic mode with the a vertical resolution closer to 2700 - or a 4:3 mode with this height. For some reason I had always thought this was part of the plan- it was my main reason for jumping on the Scarlet in the first place.

5k and even 4k 2.4:1 would be great (yes, I use the guides).
fingers crossed...

 

[Elan Gunos]

If Jim himself said 'We did not make EPIC 5K by accident' where does that leave Scarlet footage that shoots at 4K?

There is a reason we made a 5K camera.

The RED ONE was originally a 4K camera. With its Bayer pattern, it resolved 3.2K in a 4K package. Over 4 times the measured resolution of the best 1080P camera.

1080P is also a package size, not a measured resolution. The very best 1080P camera measures 1.7K of nervous resolution inside the 1080P package.

The reason we built a 5K camera is that it "fills up" a 4K package with resolution. Over 5 times the measured resolution of a 1080P camera and equivalent to IMAX that is processed in a 4K chain.

5K sensors have 60+% more pixels than a 4K camera. This is significant.

So when you compare 4K cameras... keep this in mind.

Additionally, there is a HUGE difference when extracting stills from motion.

We did not make EPIC 5K by accident.

Jim

Are You SERIOUS?!? Or did you forget the "oh the sarcasm" emoji...?

 

[Les Dittert]

Are You SERIOUS?!? Or did you forget the "oh the sarcasm" emoji...?

4K film festival. I like the idea.
Now, if they could show the first shot from "Samsara" on that 4K projector, then you can see what 4K can look like.

Peter, don't you think that it would be helpful for promoting 4K to have a place here to post some moderated 4K stills from peoples submitted media ?
What is there to be hesitant about ? What a fantastic way to show the razor sharp output of the product.
I mentioned to a friend the fun I'm having with shooting high resolution on Red. Next day he asked where on the site he could find some examples of it to closely examine.
Canon and Nikon often post full res. stills.

Please, if you can, point us to some 4K that was previously posted by someone other than me. I want to see the 4K, even in still format !

Not all shooters are into shooting through the bottom of a Coke bottle type vintage glass/ creamy/ Silver Lake look.

 

[Mike P.]

Les, there are quite a few threads on REDuser where people have posted not just 4k Jpegs, but the actual full resolution/raw .r3ds of their work...

That said, I also believe it's ridiculous that RED doesn't have some easy-to-find stills on their front page. Potential buyers shouldn't have to scrounge the Internet to find some (although, official Alexa and F65 examples are also hard to find.)

By the way, where is your OPLF removal tutorial... That'd be a huge step towards a "true 4k" image.