What's the Most FUTURE-PROOF Cine Lens?

[AnthonyFlores]

Hi Guys,

I've read through some previous threads and I've also looked at this page:

http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir.html

And still, I'm not quite sure which sets of cine lenses will give full coverage for the Epic Super 35 Sensor -- as it appears the Epic S35 is larger than standard S35.

According to the chart, the Zeiss Master Prime set will give complete coverage from 16mm all the way to 100m.

Cookes S4's will cover from 25mm to 150mm -- but the 12mm to 21mm lenses will vignette.

(Does anyone know if the Cooke 5i's have more coverage? They seem larger and their website states they will cover S35, but not sure if that applies to Epic 5k S35 sensor.)

Also, the new Leicas look AMAZING ... but I'm curious about their coverage as well.

The next thing is ... FF35 sensor. As of now, it seems that the only set that will fully cover the FF35 that many members of this board are so excited about are the Zeiss CP2's -- which are nice lenses, but not on par with the Master Primes, Cookes or Leicas.

That's why I mentioned "future proof" in my subject, I'm curious about the plans of those who intend on owning or even extensively renting high-end Cine lenses once the Epic-X and Epic FF35 come out.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

Anthony

 

[Pawel Achtel]

"Future proof" is an oxymoron. Buy or rent what is good enough for the job at hand.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

For those who say, "Don't buy your Cine lenses -- just rent them" ... I'm working on a business plan/executive summary for a production studio next year that will do 1/3 non-profit, 1/3 narrative/features, and 1/3 marketing commercial work.

We can realistically receive up to $5 million in startup capital, and I'm pretty sure we can almost break even on the lenses, just by renting them (not to big studios, I realize).

Also, our schedule will be unpredictable at times and I have a feeling the best lens sets are not always in stock to rent when needed.

So that's my reasoning for buying full sets, rather than renting. Thx!

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Pawel, I know -- I hesitating using the "future proof" cliche ... it's almost as bad as "game changer" but I knew it would get people's attention and there's some truth in it. I want to plan intelligently for future camera releases.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

My expectation is that Monstro FF35 sensor is at least 2 years away, so I'd be aiming to get S35 lenses rather than FF35 because of much bigger choice of good cine lenses covering this format. If and when FF35 sensor is available, chances are cine-style glass will follow soon after.

If you need speed, Master Primes are hard to beat. I'd be weary of the new Leica lenses due to poor customer service and support. Sorry, I had a really piss poor experiences with Leica support. Arri customer service is second to none. Red Primes are also good and probably the best value for money.

Hope it helps.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Thanks Pawel, and btw very impressed with your work.

But part of my question was regarding coverage of the Epic sensor, which seems to be slightly larger than standard S35, based on the chart from Duclos.

Seems true that the all the Master Primes fully cover and good to know you had a great experience with them -- hoping someone can chime in regarding Cooke 5i and Leica.

Thx

Anthony

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

My expectation is that Monstro FF35 sensor is at least 2 years away, so I'd be aiming to get S35 lenses rather than FF35 because of much bigger choice of good cine lenses covering this format. If and when FF35 sensor is available, chances are cine-style glass will follow soon after.

If you need speed, Master Primes are hard to beat. I'd be weary of the new Leica lenses due to poor customer service and support. Sorry, I had a really piss poor experiences with Leica support. Arri customer service is second to none. Red Primes are also good and probably the best value for money.

Hope it helps.

Pawel,

sorry but you are still spreading sort of FUD about Leica customer service here at the forum.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Pawel,

sorry but you are still spreading sort of FUD about Leica customer service here at the forum.

Sorry Sanjin, this is no FUD, it is my personal, first-hand experience.

If, after sending about a dozen emails there is no response or responses coming from different people within Leica or its Australian distributor, ADEAL are consistently incompetent in a way that they do not address the simple questions that are asked, the experience dealing with Leica is akin to extracting teeth with a screwdriver.

It would be unfair for me to recommend Leica when companies like Arri and Red provide such an outstanding customer service that dealing with them is a real pleassure.

Leica makes good glass but sadly my experience in getting support is on the extreme opposite of what other players do.

I have absolutely no interest to favour one manufacturer over another or spread FUD, just my personal experience, you can share yours, if you like.

 

[Matt Uhry]

I don't think the coverage issues of the Epic are going to be all that big a deal once you crop to an actual shooting or delivery format: 16:9, 1.85, 2.35 add 10% for look-a-round. Voila! now every current 35mm lens will cover just fine...

2:1 while having it's fans, and probably being a good idea, is not really something that theaters or broadcasters can or want to handle. Sorry Vittorio, the projectionist or engineer dude at the TV station has final cut !

OK - what to buy ?

Owner Lenses: You usually get to choose / dictate what gets used on productions
$$ Duclos 11-16,
$$ RPP's - A great "owner" set of lenses. Performs WAY above it's price.

Rentals: Fickle DP's spending other peoples money.
$$$$ Leica's - I think they nailed it in every respect with this lens set. Size, Speed, Resolution, Ergonomics.
$$$ Ultra Primes - Classic Solid Mid budget Rental set.
$$$ Any Angenieux Optimo

Just my opinions...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com



Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

latest Epic info

latest Epic info

Thanks Pawel, and btw very impressed with your work.

But part of my question was regarding coverage of the Epic sensor, which seems to be slightly larger than standard S35, based on the chart from Duclos.

Seems true that the all the Master Primes fully cover and good to know you had a great experience with them -- hoping someone can chime in regarding Cooke 5i and Leica.

Thx

Anthony

Jim just stated in another thread that the recordable area on the Epic is
"27.65mm x 14.58" which gives the image circle of 31.258mm that's pretty close to Motion Picture full aperture or Super 35. I don't think you'll have Any significant issues with any modern primes. I seem to recall that years ago I made a test and Cooke S4s 18mm and 14mm did not cover Super 35 format (full aperture) so they could have issues. But it's been so long ago that it might have changed.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sorry Sanjin, this is no FUD, it is my personal, first-hand experience.

If, after sending about a dozen emails there is no response or responses coming from different people within Leica or its Australian distributor, ADEAL are consistently incompetent in a way that they do not address the simple questions that are asked, the experience dealing with Leica is akin to extracting teeth with a screwdriver.

It would be unfair for me to recommend Leica when companies like Arri and Red provide such an outstanding customer service that dealing with them is a real pleassure.

Leica makes good glass but sadly my experience in getting support is on the extreme opposite of what other players do.

I have absolutely no interest to favour one manufacturer over another or spread FUD, just my personal experience, you can share yours, if you like.

Pawel,

I can understand now what happened to you and it's a pitty.

But also must consider that companies like an old Arri or newbie like a REd didn't change its owner.

That happened to Leica recently and this could be the key for a service situation.

The latest Leica owner probably doesn't want to have more responsibilities for any older, vintage or rehoused Leica lenses.

Also there are many lens services worldwide that are dealing with any sort of vintage glass.

It's too expensive to keep track on servicing thousands of lenses that new Leica camera AG company didn't make.

If you buy Leica brand name doesn't automatically make you responsible for every Leica made product started

from "Oskar Barnack's genius idea of creating the small format 35 mm camera created a revolution in photography in 1925",...

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Thanks Pawel, and btw very impressed with your work.

But part of my question was regarding coverage of the Epic sensor, which seems to be slightly larger than standard S35, based on the chart from Duclos.

Seems true that the all the Master Primes fully cover and good to know you had a great experience with them -- hoping someone can chime in regarding Cooke 5i and Leica.

Thx

Anthony

Not sure about the Cooke or Leicas but you can be certain that Red's Primes will cover you if you are willing to give them a go.

They match up to the best, but unfortunately are a tad on the weighty side.

I would suggest a good starting point would be to work out what lens set you would consider would get most use and be put to work the best in your Production house then work from there.

 

[Evin Grant]

Honestly with the sensitivity of the MX chip there is a significant argument for zooms. The entire Optimo line is amazing and allow for very fast setup changes while still being beautiful and sharp. If you can afford the cost and wait/weight the 12:1 24-290 T2.8 is litterally on every show I work on. It is the definition of a work horse, add the 16-42 and 30-80 Rouges for handheld/sdeadicam and you're set except for the odd super wide.
If you'd still like to add primes get RPPs, they're a bargain.

If all you're going to get is primes then the Leicas would be my "No price limit" choice simply because I'm in love with my M9 and M Summicron lenses.

But seriously, the Optimos are the shit, I'm planning on buying the 16-42 this year and the 30-80 next.

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Speaking of zooms, the new Zeiss Lightweight Zoom seems interesting. Would love to see some kind of comparison test with Red's RPZ.

 

[Paul Hazlett]

The RPZ 17-50 punches WAY above its weight class, anyone that has used it loves it. and at 6k its a no brainer. might be a 18-50 at 5k but still....

 

[Antoine Fabi]

...But seriously, the Optimos are the shit, I'm planning on buying the 16-42 this year and the 30-80 next.

Hi Evin,

They certainly have a magical feel in their image rendering, no doubt

I wonder if they'll cover 5K...


Antoine

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Putting on my flameproof suit now

Putting on my flameproof suit now

Speaking of zooms, the new Zeiss Lightweight Zoom seems interesting. Would love to see some kind of comparison test with Red's RPZ.

IMO Zeiss couldn't make a good zoom if their life depended on it.

Before you flame me to death::emote_couch:
I've serviced ad repaired lenses for 25 years.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Have you seen the Master Zoom?

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

impact on industry

impact on industry

Have you seen the Master Zoom?

Have you seen Dalsa camera? I think they hold the same status in the industry:
rare, magnificent, expensive and insignificant:angelsad2:

 

[Mitch Gross]

Okay, but I think there's a pretty big gap between "couldn't make a good zoom if their life depended on it" and "rare, magnificent, expensive and insignificant."