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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Final Cut Pro X Released

Ivan G said:
Terry, you don't consider CNN the world's largest news leader? Are you the dude in the Geico commercial that's still under a rock?
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Sure CNN is big, not arguing that. My point is that they didn't "blast them" at all. They reported that there was negative feedback. Wow. And at the end, they quote David Pogue of the NY Times as being very favorable on it. You should read that article. His last paragraph reads: "Yes, some bugs need fixing, and the “coming soon” features need to come soon. But despite the footnotes, and if you can get past the shock of the new, Final Cut X is already intuitive, powerful and very sweet."

And FWIW - I think the people unwilling to embrace FCP-X may find themselves under your rock. But everyone has their own perspective.

And while you're reading, check this out ,too: http://fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/434-the-top-ten-editors-concerns-about-final-cut-pro-x
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Sure CNN is big, not arguing that. My point is that they didn't "blast them" at all. They reported that there was negative feedback. Wow. And at the end, they quote David Pogue of the NY Times as being very favorable on it. You should read that article. His last paragraph reads: "Yes, some bugs need fixing, and the “coming soon” features need to come soon. But despite the footnotes, and if you can get past the shock of the new, Final Cut X is already intuitive, powerful and very sweet."

And FWIW - I think the people unwilling to embrace FCP-X may find themselves under your rock. But everyone has their own perspective.

And while you're reading, check this out ,too: http://fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/434-the-top-ten-editors-concerns-about-final-cut-pro-x
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The CNN article, entitled "The Final Cut Pro X Debacle", says the following before the link to the Pogue review: "David Pogue, not a professional filmmaker, finds much to love in his New York Times review."

PS - The "Top Ten editors concerns" article seems to have completely missed all the major issues that have been cited here and in user reviews on Apple's site. Literally the most recent user comment below it as I write this reads:
"I don't think this hit on any of my concerns. While I have yet to buy FCP X, I've heard and read a number things. Mainly not being backwards compatible with FCP 7 and it's components. Then there's no multiclip editing, there is no viewer, I've read about people's clips corrupting by opening them from the timeline, the fact that you can't custom set your scratch disk...the list goes on and on. I am not opposed to learning a new piece of software, however I am opposed to software with no compatibility and with less functionality. I think the color correction tools, and the optical flow and all of this is great...but without common functionality it means nothing. I feel like apple has taken on the role of catering to the consumer, and less to the professional. It was arrogant of them to release this piece of software without consulting any editors or companies that make a living pushing FCP."
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All this is a bit perplexing. I disagree with those who say Apple doesn't care about the pro market ... yet, this release could certainly be construed that way. Especially since they have been so sharp with their consumer product releases (though the antenna issue almost blew up in their face with iPhone 4).

Still, Apple has always maintained that even as the pro market becomes a much smaller profit center for them, it's very important because pros often set the standards of excellence and define what's best. It's a feather in their cap that so many professional designers, filmmakers, etc use Apple. And they value this.

And remember that Jobs himself is the largest owner in Disney/Pixar, which is essentially our industry. He understands professionals and for the most part I believe he understands the nature of our business, and there's no way he would have wanted this kind of reaction or backlash. Not in a million years.

In terms of FCPx and the pro market, it seems like Apple could fund the necessary efforts in their sleep. I mean ... with their $70 billion in cash, AppleInsider posted an estimate that they could literally outright BUY all their other phone competitors (with the exception of Samsung). That's crazy! No other company on the planet is sitting on that much cash. And so what is throwing a couple hundred million or whatever at FCPX or any other "pro" product really going to hurt them?

I sincerely believe Apple invested properly in this ... and I believe they had great intentions of satisfying professionals. I'm convinced that some serious mistakes were made by some along the way - both in development and in PR/marketing - for this to happen this way. Let's just hope they take notice, fix things, fast and learn their lesson.

Pros might not be even 1% as valuable as consumer iProducts, but it's an integral part of their history, their reputation and even their branding of being "better."
 
Terry's points seem valid to me.

The two major omissions I see from FCPX are no XML support and no multicam editing. If you're a person who uses those, then - for now, anyway - you're better off sticking with FCP7. No harm, no foul. It should also be noted that both programs can run concurrently and simultaneously on your Mac.

To me, the magnetic timeline is worth the (way cheap) price of admission alone... I never understood how anyone could justify the destructive nature of FCP's old engine (move a clip over another and then back and you've "eaten" into the second clip). It's 64-bit, runs way faster, pushes rendering completely out of the way, and finally allows for 4K projects. The biggest complaint seems to be that the UI resembles iMovie (oh no, it's dark grey!) and somehow psychologically this has turned people into whining babies. I'm not saying it's perfect, but FCP was getting direly stale and needed a rewrite from the ground up and at least Apple had the balls to do that.
 
Häakon said:
Terry's points seem valid to me.

The two major omissions I see from FCPX are no XML support and no multicam editing.
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Seriously?

No support for Capture from Tape (except Firewire)? How about OMF export? How about EDL support? How about real tape output? Multi monitor support? FCP7 import? DPX support? R3D support? I'm just getting started. The list goes on and on and on.
 
I need manuals, believe it or not I do most of my editing NOT connected to the internet. The Help function doesn't work if you are not on the internet. How/Where can I print manuals? I am going to ask for a refund because there are no manuals that can be printed.
 
Tim Morten said:
Seriously?

No support for Capture from Tape (except Firewire)? How about OMF export? How about EDL support? How about real tape output? Multi monitor support? FCP7 import? DPX support? R3D support? I'm just getting started. The list goes on and on and on.
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Of course I'm serious. Capture from tape? You're on a RED forum... I don't even know what to say.

I addressed the fact that the new Final cut does not have OMF/XML/EDL support. I also stated that if you are the kind of editor that is reliant on doing conforms with these (and I know a lot of people are), then you can't make the jump yet. That is the singular main problem I see with the software.

FCPX already supports multiple monitors connected to your system, it just doesn't support routing via 3rd-party PCI cards yet. It's only been out for two days now, take a deep breath. I'm sure someone is out there writing drivers.

It's a new program written from the ground up and doesn't support backwards compatibility. This is not a new concept; you have to move on eventually to force fundamental change. There was a bit of backlash when Apple moved to Intel as well. Now that whole thing is a faded memory. But again - as I already pointed out - you can run the old software on the same machine as the new software, so if you need to access legacy projects, you still have that capability. FCP7 is no different today than it was yesterday.

FCP never had R3D support so that's a non-issue. And if you want DPX files, you should output them from REDCine as always.
 
Alex Mack said:
Bucketing water out the lifeboat there, Terry?
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I sure hope this topic and forum isnt creating a snob attitude towards the have's and the have nots. If one isnt in the film business does that mean he/she doesnt have any clout as to what they think? Did we all forget that were all so called professionals (Im a wannabe waiting in the wings) and at one time werent also just starting out and learning new tools? This topic has grown into something most will probably regret. And the sad thing is, its no different than the trolling sites such as Macrumors, and were all suppose to be some kind of experienced professionals here :(
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
When they brought Premiere back to the mac they probably started in Cocoa making the upgrade to 64 bit more seamless, If you look at Photoshop however it's still a carbon app which means it's still in 32 bit and I think they have been working behind the scenes on it for a long time now so that when the carbon version is ready they can transition to 64 bit a lot more smoothly.
Apple seems to have decided to take the opportunity to just re think Final Cut Pro all together, the interface after all is pretty much the same interface it has had since OS9 not a lot has changed has changed since then.
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Any adobe app that is 64 bit is Cocoa... That includes Premiere, After Effects, Adobe Media Encoder, Audition, Photoshop (which is 64 bit), etc... When PPro came back to the mac it wasn't at that time 64 bit or Cocoa. We did the 64 bit Cocoa port at a later time.. We currently are using the latest mac tech including, Cocoa, 64 bit GCD, and any other cool stuff that apple releases.

Cheers

Dave
 
i'm a red owner and not a pro editor so you can take what i say with a grain of salt but i find all of this change is exciting. i've been an apple consumer since apple 2 (ok, i was 5 years old at the time so it was my dad who started the family trend) and a non-linear using editor since 1995 (media 100 and then fcp). i disagree that apple is choosing to cater to either a pro or consumer market. i think that apple marches to their own beat and if that means creating a new market for non-linear editing, so be it. if that also means losing a chunk of their pro market, so be it. non-linear editing has become the mhz wars of the 90's. for the past 10 years, it's only been about the quest for realtime, codec support and adding incremental features. that stuff is great for daily pro workflow but completely uninspiring on a creative level.

if you're a pro and hate radical change then you should not only dump fcpx, you should've dumped apple years ago because they've been doing it since imac. apple is here to make change as they see fit. yes i want them to deliver all the features i want but that's not going to happen. what i want even more is for them to deliver some features i want and some features i didn't even know i needed.

call me an appoligist. call fcpx a failure. feed the flames. apple loves it because for every 1 pro editor they lose, they're gaining 10 new future editors that don't care about that "pro" title. i believe they're trying to "create" editors that understand how software can be both a tool and an artful experience.

i've downloaded fcpx but for now i'm working in fcp7. too many ongoing projects currently to switch smoothly but does anyone here doubt that 6 months from now fcpx will be the dominant tool of choice for editors?
 
George Butterfield said:
I need manuals, believe it or not I do most of my editing NOT connected to the internet. The Help function doesn't work if you are not on the internet. How/Where can I print manuals? I am going to ask for a refund because there are no manuals that can be printed.
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I have been able to save the manuals as pdf's (finally) and they are now printing. Will this product be available on disk?
 
Craig Schober said:
call me an appoligist. call fcpx a failure. feed the flames. apple loves it because for every 1 pro editor they lose, they're gaining 10 new future editors that don't care about that "pro" title. i believe they're trying to "create" editors that understand how software can be both a tool and an artful experience.
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You might be onto something Craig. Now that I am printing manuals, I'm a happy camper! My objectives with FCPX is to print direct to Blu-ray. I think I can do this.
 
Häakon said:
It's a new program written from the ground up and doesn't support backwards compatibility. This is not a new concept; you have to move on eventually to force fundamental change. There was a bit of backlash when Apple moved to Intel as well. Now that whole thing is a faded memory. But again - as I already pointed out - you can run the old software on the same machine as the new software, so if you need to access legacy projects, you still have that capability. FCP7 is no different today than it was yesterday.

FCP never had R3D support so that's a non-issue. And if you want DPX files, you should output them from REDCine as always.
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The problem is, is it does have backward compatibility... Just not with the program it is named after, but with iMovie.
 
To Terry ...

I'm with you man, I'm going to give this some time and not rush to judgment. And I can't speak for everyone else, but far be it for me to criticize Apple's business acumen -- they are literally THE most successful on earth right now, growing faster and more consistently than any other company of comparable size.

However, don't you agree this could have been handled better? With how sharp Apple has been at wowing people and satisfying customers in recent years, I just can't believe they wanted or anticipated such a reaction - and whoever is to blame - I guarantee this 1.0 release was NOT supposed to happen like this.

Like you, my faith in Apple is not shaken (I know that sounds religious, but look at their track record). I will be patient. Yet I'm also not a full time professional editor or DIT who has been waiting years for this, like others here - otherwise I might be a bit more emotional as well.

Hopefully they are listening and adjusting as we speak, and they will make things so good that even those who jumped ship right now will feel compelled to come back later on ....
 
<FlameOn>

Häakon said:
Of course I'm serious. Capture from tape? You're on a RED forum... I don't even know what to say.
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Must be nice to live on a planet where you deal with no formats besides Red. Most of us still interact with the real world.

I addressed the fact that the new Final cut does not have OMF/XML/EDL support. I also stated that if you are the kind of editor that is reliant on doing conforms with these (and I know a lot of people are), then you can't make the jump yet. That is the singular main problem I see with the software.
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No, you addressed that it doesn't have XML support. Full EDL and OMF support requires additional work.

FCPX already supports multiple monitors connected to your system, it just doesn't support routing via 3rd-party PCI cards yet. It's only been out for two days now, take a deep breath. I'm sure someone is out there writing drivers.[/QUTOE]
The current "support" is a hack, with no indication of how Apple plans to enable third parties.

[QUOTE[It's a new program written from the ground up and doesn't support backwards compatibility. This is not a new concept; you have to move on eventually to force fundamental change. There was a bit of backlash when Apple moved to Intel as well. Now that whole thing is a faded memory.
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Apple didn't cripple everyone's workflow when they moved to Intel. Completely not a useful analogy.

But again - as I already pointed out - you can run the old software on the same machine as the new software, so if you need to access legacy projects, you still have that capability. FCP7 is no different today than it was yesterday.
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FCP7 is no longer sold by Apple and is not compatible with FCPX.

FCP never had R3D support so that's a non-issue. And if you want DPX files, you should output them from REDCine as always.
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Not at all a non-issue: these were modern features that were expected with this release, instead of ripping out features that most people rely on.

The bottom line: Apple Insider reported a year ago that Apple was going to focus on the consumer market first with this release, and that's exactly what happened. If you're okay with that, by all means move your workflow to FCPX. Everyone else has legitimate gripes, and it's not useful to be dismissive of those concerns.

</FlameOff>
 
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