FCPX vs CC/CS6 as of June 2013

[Mike Harrington]

FCPX is a radical game changer. Its most noticeable advantage over PRemiere and AE is it's simplicity! That's been the core of Apple's success over the years. Simple and powerful! What more can you ask for!?

I can't begin to go through the simplicity of fcpx as non-users wouldn't even begin to understand. I'll also never bash Premiere. I'll simply attempt to describe a typical music video edit however:

FCPX has what's called a "compoud clip". On the timeline, it looks like a clip, that you can stretch, cut, paste as you please. Double clipping the "compound clip " will reveal multiple clips within it".
Now, when you apply that to music video edit, i literally have all 10 takes of my performance shots within my ONE compound clip, running simulatneously (thanks to proxy media feature of fcpx), and viewable through the multicam window. Watching all 10 clips (in real time) i simply select which takes i want to appear at which second by hitting the number pad corresponding (in real time), on the beat / off the beat like a broadcast switchboard. Did i mention, i am editing Red r3d!??

Once that's done, I simply add my COLOR GRADE, to the compound clip ( not to the 10 different takes)... any filters and adjustments are made to the compound clip.

This applies to ChromaKeying. I apply my key to the compound clip, which contains all my takes. Im not doing 8 different keys, im doing ONLY 1 key. 1 Grade!! My timeline has 1 track!!
(BTW, fcpx can have Countless tracks if needed... but WHY!??)
In fcpx, thought about editors and began questioning the archaic, old way of doing things. With each upgrade, more functions and features are added. With the new macpro's, fcpx will be optimized and tailor made for it and FLY. That's the advantage of controlling both the software and hardware. We won't even begin talking about the 4k Monitors support of the mac pro

Learn the software, unleash the power!

This can all be done in PPro using nested sequences....I multicam switched 3 4k camera in PPro the other day and had to apply CC to the entire sequence.....
You do have to make a new sequence and drag that into it...but then all effects are applied to the entire sequence.....as if it were a clip...
This has been in since at least cs3 as well

I rarely need to use this however....

 

[Mike Harrington]

The one major complaint I have about PPro is the lack of plugins....

Software makers usually will make them for AE and quit often for FC....but for PPro there is not a lot diversity of plugins as they figure most PPro users will have AE anyway....

And even though the dynamic link works pretty good....I would rather have a lot of these effect in PPro natively rather then have to jump into AE

Final cut had a bit of a leg up there....and I assume FCX will in the future...

Interestingly the best plugin architecture for an editor is likely Sony Vegas....as they went with openfx.....so any plugin written for openfx (nuke, fusion, scratch ect ect) should work in Vegas.....another underrated editor

 

[Liam Hall]

Of course we all have preferences based on our own situations. It's just a little tiresome when some people can't respect that.

That goes for both sides or the argument and for those, like me, who are in the middle

 

[Mike Garrick]

Well I'm one of the users bailing out of CC7 the writing is on the wall IMO with Adobe. .....CS6 was nice but it isnt earth shaking. WTF Speedgrade is a crock & I paid for that !. Anyway Resolve is better. AE is the killer app. but I'll see how I go with the CS6 version. Photoshop can be had anywhere & frankly for what most of us do with it we don't need anymore updates on this very mature piece of software.

So moving on & in light of the new Mac Pro its time to give FCPX a go, this is very polarising software, opinion wise that is. It was absolute garbage on release but with every build it is getting better. Anyway I did the trail thing right when my work load picked up so did not get to do a lot with. So I couldn't trial some concerns...

They are
1) I must be able to "deep stacking video lines" say upto 25 deep I've heard this can be problematic on FCPX,
2) The terminology of FCPX no more bins, sequences just events, and collections makes it harder learning this NLE.
3) interfacing with outside facilities. David B gave great advice about 3rd party App for getting audio to protools but really this should be an easy solve for system thats try to be pro & should be internalised.....Hint hint Mr Apple. Any other tips out there.

Magnetic timeline I know I can turn off...somewhere...thank god .

4) The other concern is the management of the media all I want on the host computer is renders, programme & EDL/XML....nothing else. (is that possible ? ) I sorted out where to enable these steps but there still seems to be "background transcoding" which is happening & not whats just on the timeline....whats that about ?

5) Archiving of projects I don't want to store old projects on C Drive ...what do I need to do to make this happen yet be able resurrect projects at a moments notice

Non of these are negative's, they're just Newbie queries. Thanx

 

[Kalechi Noel]

This can all be done in PPro using nested sequences....I multicam switched 3 4k camera in PPro the other day and had to apply CC to the entire sequence.....
You do have to make a new sequence and drag that into it...but then all effects are applied to the entire sequence.....as if it were a clip...
This has been in since at least cs3 as well

I rarely need to use this however....

... Again, i must stress simplicity! Limiting the number of steps necessary to do basic tasks.

The compound clip goes further than the nested sequence I think. you can create a compound clip in your EVENT (let´s call it library, if you want). Then you can throw things in there without even having a sequence or timeline open!! When you sync external audio with your clips, FCPX will automatically create a synced-compound.

nested sequences are a bit trickier than Final Cut's compound clips, because of the multiple recursions they can involve.


Once you understand how it works, and how changes to compound clips can ripple across projects, it's a powerful feature that you'll find yourself using more and more.

At end of Day all NLE's do the same thing. It's your creative abilities that differentiate your work. Now, if you can give me tools, that allow me to do the same things, in less time... just as good... i'm sold! FCPX just does that.

 

[Paul Harb]

Note FCPX is the only NLE that creates such debate since the day it was released that it can be used in a professional environment. That says a lot. There is no debate...or at least there shouldnt be.

Let me be clear before all the people that own Scarlets and shoot and edit and color and mix on a laptop using R3D files all by themselves on extremely low budget productions jump all over me...Im not talking about your workflow..Im talking about people that need power tools, need total control instead of simplicity and who have taken the years it takes to master a craft...how ironic you call these people old and lazy for not learning new things when most of them have dedicated much more time than you will ever be willing to in learning their chosen craft.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Generalizations serve neither side.

Note FCPX is the only NLE that creates such debate since the day it was released that it can be used in a professional environment. That says a lot. There is no debate...or at least there shouldnt be.

Let me be clear before all the people that own Scarlets and shoot and edit and color and mix on a laptop using R3D files all by themselves on extremely low budget productions jump all over me...Im not talking about your workflow..Im talking about people that need power tools, need total control instead of simplicity and who have taken the years it takes to master a craft...how ironic you call these people old and lazy for not learning new things when most of them have dedicated much more time than you will ever be willing to in learning their chosen craft.

 

[Liam Hall]

Generalizations serve neither side.

Agreed.

Moving this debate on...

I'd like to hear from people who are happily using FCPX in a professional context; what type of jobs are you editing, how are you collaborating and managing varied workflows?

Only one rule, you cannot use the words paradigm or game-changer.

 

[Mike Harrington]

The compound clip goes further than the nested sequence I think. you can create a compound clip in your EVENT (let´s call it library, if you want). Then you can throw things in there without even having a sequence or timeline open!! When you sync external audio with your clips, FCPX will automatically create a synced-compound.

nested sequences are a bit trickier than Final Cut's compound clips, because of the multiple recursions they can involve.


Once you understand how it works, and how changes to compound clips can ripple across projects, it's a powerful feature that you'll find yourself using more and more.

I can see how that would be useful once you got used to it.....
Question....and I honestly don't know....but on your 10 camera switch is that native r3d or transcoded?
Does FCX work in native or is it background transcoding r3d files

 

[Scott Crawley]

If your project settings match your R3d source then yes,
FCP cuts native. Deviate from the source and it will be rendered, naturally.

I can see how that would be useful once you got used to it.....
Question....and I honestly don't know....but on your 10 camera switch is that native r3d or transcoded?
Does FCX work in native or is it background transcoding r3d files

 

[Mike Harrington]

Thats a big step up....
I think PPro has a slight edge here...as no transcoding ever until render....

But there's no way PPro could multicam 10 r3d files at once....not enough horsepower....can FCX really multicam 10 r3d's simultaneously?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Note FCPX is the only NLE that creates such debate since the day it was released that it can be used in a professional environment. That says a lot. There is no debate...or at least there shouldnt be.

Let me be clear before all the people that own Scarlets and shoot and edit and color and mix on a laptop using R3D files all by themselves on extremely low budget productions jump all over me...Im not talking about your workflow..Im talking about people that need power tools, need total control instead of simplicity and who have taken the years it takes to master a craft...how ironic you call these people old and lazy for not learning new things when most of them have dedicated much more time than you will ever be willing to in learning their chosen craft.

Ah, yes. Those exalted power users who need power, nothing but power, and lots of it. And who simply know that only THEY understand where the power truly lies. Simplicity? Power users scoff at simplicity because they are intellectually above needing simplicity. THEY are the POWER users, the exalted ones, the ones who spent many years studying under the masters by candlelight - because all the electricity was required for their powerful computing devices. They don't work with low budgets because money is POWER. They are so smart and enlightened that they know when a new tool won't work even before it's developed. They are The Masters of the Craft and the true upper class of craftsmen. They are worshipped, they are adored, they are deified - mostly by themselves, of course. They are omniscient, they KNOW that others have not spent time learning and they are happy to assume they are smarter, prettier, richer and just down right superior to those OTHERS who, among their failings are not... power users.

Amen. :001_tongue:

P.S. It's kind of like the new Mac Pro... does anyone ever give a shit enough to debate a PC... or Avid? LOL

 

[Scott Crawley]

I didn't vouch for a 10 cam stream... that I'd like to see as well. =-) No I was only speaking generally to how FCPX handles R3d.

Thats a big step up....
I think PPro has a slight edge here...as no transcoding ever until render....

But there's no way PPro could multicam 10 r3d files at once....not enough horsepower....can FCX really multicam 10 r3d's simultaneously?

 

[AndreasOberg]

We are using FCPX for editing a documentary movie. I instantly liked the interface when I opened the program. Tags for clips is very useful. The library has much better overview than Premiere. I indeed do feel that I can edit faster than in Premiere, much less moving clips around since it all snaps on the timeline.
I also really like the way it works with proxies. You can scrub so fast in time back and forward.
Everything advanced I do in other programs. Every effect is in After Effects. Color Grading in Davinci, allthough FCP is good enough for rough grading. And sound in ProTools. I would never use Premiere for Color grading for example.
There are limitations in FPCX. Working with sound and pro tools is quite painful and some basic features are just lacking like an easy way to import frame sequences.
The main limitation I have found so far is that you MUST have a Mac, and even though I like them, you cant build them yourself which means its hard to get a really fast computer.

Just my 2 cent. I'm no expert though.
/Andreas

 

[Kalechi Noel]

I can see how that would be useful once you got used to it.....
Question....and I honestly don't know....but on your 10 camera switch is that native r3d or transcoded?
Does FCX work in native or is it background transcoding r3d files

Mike, Scott

FCPX does work with Native r3d files!. What' i'd suggest when importing your footage is to select "Proxy" import. The proxy will reference the original file but will be smaller and much easier to work with. My work flow, is to import, select proxy and let it run while i sleep after a shoot. NExt day when im ready to edit, i am editing in real time of proxy r3d. I edit, and do my multicamera edit using proxy. This will allow me to preview / apply filters, plugin with no render necessary. Once im done, i go into preferences and switch to original export. (1 second later), im exporting in 4k, r3d.

BTW, depending on speed your machine, you won't have to use proxy, and can edit 4k timeline, natively. I'd strongly suggest proxy as it makes everything so much faster.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I believe the proxy files are transcoded to a ProRes variant. Once created they do not reference the R3d further. FCPX maintains the connection between the original and the proxy media for future renderings, but proxy playback is independent of the original media.

Mike, Scott

FCPX does work with Native r3d files!. What' i'd suggest when importing your footage is to select "Proxy" import. The proxy will reference the original file but will be smaller and much easier to work with. My work flow, is to import, select proxy and let it run while i sleep after a shoot. NExt day when im ready to edit, i am editing in real time of proxy r3d. I edit, and do my multicamera edit using proxy. This will allow me to preview / apply filters, plugin with no render necessary. Once im done, i go into preferences and switch to original export. (1 second later), im exporting in 4k, r3d.

BTW, depending on speed your machine, you won't have to use proxy, and can edit 4k timeline, natively. I'd strongly suggest proxy as it makes everything so much faster.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

The proxy workflow for Red files in FCP X is pretty good. It is efficient. At the end you just switch back to the original footage.

On a more general note I would say that FCPX is pretty elastic in the sense that it can be used by all sectors of the industry - both the "wedding videographers" end and the professional end. I dont see a problem with that.

 

[Mike Harrington]

Mike, Scott

FCPX does work with Native r3d files!. What' i'd suggest when importing your footage is to select "Proxy" import. The proxy will reference the original file but will be smaller and much easier to work with. My work flow, is to import, select proxy and let it run while i sleep after a shoot. NExt day when im ready to edit, i am editing in real time of proxy r3d. I edit, and do my multicamera edit using proxy. This will allow me to preview / apply filters, plugin with no render necessary. Once im done, i go into preferences and switch to original export. (1 second later), im exporting in 4k, r3d.

BTW, depending on speed your machine, you won't have to use proxy, and can edit 4k timeline, natively. I'd strongly suggest proxy as it makes everything so much faster.

In PPro you can handle native r3d multicam, with no overnight rendering.....immediately after the shoot. You of course have to use the proxy Rez to achieve this....but there is no rendered proxy file.

 

[Kalechi Noel]

Mike, Scott

Fcpx edits r3d's natively!!!! You can start editing immediately. Fcpx DOES Not need to render to play the files. it also utilizes background rendering while you are editing. it also allows editing while you are exporting.

Working with proxy media is a choice. I simply choose to do so due to my machine. I edit on 2008 Mac Pro, with 16gb ram. even with a faster machine, i'd still reconmend it as fcpx 64bit architecture makes everything so fast and quick.

The proxy files are linked in the sense that you simply toggle on/off and fcpx will automatically switch which files are shown on your timeline that you work with. All these functions are automated and handled by fcpx. the switch is seamless and as an editor you don't even know. All color corrections, transitions stay as is, and the edit timeline is exactly the same as it was using proxy. you simply click "export" when you are ready.

 

[Mike Harrington]

no I understand that...
and that is a great workflow feature....

the only difference is to multicam you had to render proxies...

I am trying to determine the horsepower of FCX....how many native streams of r3d can you multicam ect. Trying to compare it to PPRO....

As far as the workflow....well I could already say FCX sounds like it has a great proxy system....better then anything PPRO has.