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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

F5/55

Timur Civan said:
Considering how they bungled the f65 launch, I am curious to see if they have corrected their mistakes.
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I'm curious to see how Sony bungled the F65 launch. Do you have a link or other references?
 
Usually for some time after launch of a new format the price of Sony media is on the limit of affordability.

Mike Brennan
DP
Melbourne
 
One point to remember with these cameras, and this is a point I think a few people are missing when they consider the price of the 'body only', is that this isn't the same thing as a Red 'brain only'. You don't HAVE to buy the other standard accessories to get anything working - you can throw one of your existing V-mount batteries on the rear end of the camera, attach your existing Zacuto/SmallHD/Cineroid/Alphatron/etc. EVF to one of the monitoring outputs, and get shooting straight away with nothing more than some SxS media (of one sort or another).
 
Although the 4k Looks Great , This is Going to Be outside the Budget of Most people wanting such a Camera. the 4k Seems Way too Expensive to Capture, and For Those who Purchased the FS700, wanting that 4k, now it seems they are going to Dish out 10k easily to get that.

Way too Expensive for the Budget Film buff. Specially now with the RED ONE at $4,000 US
 
Michael AvMen said:
Although the 4k Looks Great , This is Going to Be outside the Budget of Most people wanting such a Camera. the 4k Seems Way too Expensive to Capture, and For Those who Purchased the FS700, wanting that 4k, now it seems they are going to Dish out 10k easily to get that.

Way too Expensive for the Budget Film buff. Specially now with the RED ONE at $4,000 US
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There have been prices officially announced? Do you have a link?
 
Hi,
just back from Sony presentation here in Belgium.
The body looks pretty dam good.
Not to heavy, fan not to loud...
But still more close to the Red One.
Love my Scarlet and Today I send again my money to RED for... Buy an EPIC :) :) :)
Thank you so much to RED to be realistic with the new price!
I understand that some people feel bad about it, but for us little company this is a Huge step and so so welcome.
Hey!
new price for the F5 and F55.... will come soon.
People around says
F5 +- 15.000 € HTVA
F55 +- 25.000 € HTVA
Prices are WITHOUT RECORDER 4K

Price for an Epic Brain here in Europe 12990 GPB = 16200 € HTVA ! Ok It's only the brain. But with my scarlet stuff this is ONLY that I need. I just paid an extra 1500$ for the SSD DMC to have 2 RED ready to shoot. So happy ;)

François Jaime Preisser






img0085xt.jpg


img0087tf.jpg
 
I think a big (and very interesting) thing that perhaps a few people are missing - where these cameras are concerned - is that the F55 (on specs at least) brings us (for the first time) to S35mm-film parity (or better) in all aspects at a (potentially) broadly affordable price-point.

It gives us:

- a S35mm image format
- equivalent resolution to S35mm film
- equivalent dynamic range to S35mm film
- equivalent motion characteristics thanks to a global shutter exposure (just as we had with mechanical shutters on film cameras)
- a wider colour gamut than S35mm film
- a vastly higher sensitivity than S35mm film (for low-light shooting, and lighter/cheaper lens options)
- faster frame rates than we had with workhorse film cameras like the Arriflex 435
- a broader range of shooting formats to cater to a broader range of budgets (standard video codecs for lower budget productions, and 16-bit raw for high-end projects)
- a lighter weight and smaller form factor than even the smallest S35mm film cameras (allowing for smaller support gear, and a broader range of rigging possibilites)

Given that point of parity in all aspects, how much more is anyone going to need from a camera? Will cameras continue to get even better and out-spec the F55? Of course they will. But will there be any dire need to upgrade beyond a level of image quality and a feature-set that good? Not for long time. Not for a seriously long time (by digital standards at least).

Cinemas have only recently made the switch to digital en masse, and mostly to 2K projection (though 4K is slowly increasing). Having made that substantial investment in infrastructure, cinemas won't be upgrading further (to 8K projectors for example), for a long, long time. Which means a camera like the F55 is going to be relevant for a long time, much longer than the 1st and 2nd generation large-sensor digital cinema cameras before it.

Just as people have largely slowed their upgrading of DSLRs once the image quality and feature-sets reached a certain level of quality, we're now going to see a similar thing happen with these 3rd-Generation digital cinema cameras (can we give that an acronym? 'DCC' or something?). I'm going to go right out and call the F55 the first '3rd Generation' DCC. We've reached a new and fascinating point of camera development with its arrival. And the market is going to shift considerably from where it was before because of it.

I wonder if we're likely to see some sort of global shutter exposure on Dragon? That'd certainly bring it to the same point of total parity with our original standard of film.
 
Mark K. said:
Cinemas have only recently made the switch to digital en masse, and mostly to 2K projection (though 4K is slowly increasing). Having made that substantial investment in infrastructure, cinemas won't be upgrading further (to 8K projectors for example), for a long, long time.
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Well at $150K plus for the 4K projectors installed... yeah one might agree... but if a Movie Theater can upgrade to a 4K Laser Projector for $10 to $40K... I completely disagree it will be a LONG LONG time... in fact I think the majority of Cinemas that waited will certainly upgrade given the low price point... as one can assume more revenue from marketing the new projection capabilities...

as for 8K... well of course thats a ways off... we are still looking at the masses not even knowing what 4K is... but they sure picked up the IMAX marketing quickly... and I have confidence ULTRA HIGH DEFINITION... or UltraHD will be an easy up sell in ticket price like Imax is.
 
Mark K. said:
I wonder if we're likely to see some sort of global shutter exposure on Dragon? That'd certainly bring it to the same point of total parity with our original standard of film.
Click to expand...

For now we have very little information about Dragon's abilities, especially after all the optimizations, re-implementations and new ASICs. We know it's capable of at least 15 stops of latitude, 6K res and faster read-out times, which brings it closer to the global shutter feel. I've said it before on the forum - I'd love to have some sort of tessive time filter built-in, that can work as a flimic shutter and variable ND filter. F65's colors are fantastic and I'm very curious to see the tests in 2013, how F55 and Dragon perform also in the color rendition area.
 
What I wonder is if Dragon will have a redesigned body or will it have essentially the same Epic/Scarlet box?

A new body could open up other advantages like improved cooling... not that there's ever been an issue with cooling on Red cameras ;).
 
Mark K. said:
http://www.sony.co.jp/SonyInfo/News/Press/201211/12-165/


So roughly $32k for the F55, $19k for the F5 and $5.6k for the R5 recorder. Anyone who went in on the F55 deal with Creative Ventures just did very well for themselves!
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IMO any one going for an F55 at 32k instead of an EPIC @ 19k or even better a DRAGON EPIC @ 25k (assuming that the Dragon with new Asic upgrade remains @6k) is simply a NUT case!!
 
James T Mather said:
32k?


Interesting.
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UK price through currency converter
f55 £ 22, 874
f5 £ 13,724
4k raw recorder £ 3,909

By the time you add necessary red/sony stuff, suspect price will be very comparable between Epic and F55. Sony also has global shutter and proper world wide service centre operation.
 
Steve G said:
UK price through currency converter
f55 £ 22, 874
f5 £ 13,724
4k raw recorder £ 3,909

By the time you add necessary red/sony stuff, suspect price will be very comparable between Epic and F55. Sony also has global shutter and proper world wide service centre operation.
Click to expand...

If these prices are correct the real killer blow is to Canon on the C500 and C300?
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
IMO any one going for an F55 at 32k instead of an EPIC @ 19k or even better a DRAGON EPIC @ 25k (assuming that the Dragon with new Asic upgrade remains @6k) is simply a NUT case!!
Click to expand...

I heard about one who sold his Epic and bought the Alexa.
 
Steve G said:
UK price through currency converter
f55 £ 22, 874
f5 £ 13,724
4k raw recorder £ 3,909

By the time you add necessary red/sony stuff, suspect price will be very comparable between Epic and F55. Sony also has global shutter and proper world wide service centre operation.
Click to expand...


Nice one Steve. Thanks.

I'm interested to see footage from the camera - what the DR looks like and general image feel. The global shutter route is certainly interesting and means they're listening to the marketplace.
 
Iain Philpott said:
If these prices are correct the real killer blow is to Canon on the C500 and C300?
Click to expand...


It'll be interesting to see, from what I keep hearing the big-DSLR look and form-factor of the Canon cameras is one of the most popular features about them - i.e. no one really notices people shooting with the bare-bones cameras and EF glass, so they provide a level of stealth that can be highly desirable for a lot of TV production.

Now that the playing field has really opened up, it'll be interesting to see where the industry puts it's priorities in terms of camera features - because everyone's offering something a little unique and special at the moment.
 
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