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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony and Panasonic - impact on RED!

None of my preferred 16mm lenses would work with a GH2 anyway. They would vignette badly. I would rather spend the cost of the GH2 getting them serviced and ready for Scarlet.
This is a creative hobby camera for me, so no compelling reason to rush it for something that won't be capable of shooting the kind of experimental work I have in mind anyway. For me 2/3" at Scarlet's price is the perfect format. Shallow DOF is not that much of a consideration.
 
Jim Retar said:
Well, a RED One will be worth, what, $5k when Scarlet S35 launches. Technology always depreciates.... just a fact of life.

With these all-in-one cameras like a AF-100... resale is actually easier.

That said... I think the Epic/Scarlet range will hold their value for many years due to the modular format.
Click to expand...

the scarlet brain is 7 k usd i guess, with all the modules, assecoires, batteries, baseplates, topplates and storage add another 13k to 18k, so a scarlet s35 will cost around 20-25k usd without lenses.

hence, no way a red kit will be worth 5k.


my red kit did cost around 40k usd without lenses three years ago, so i know how assecoires add up.

but man, if you want a panasonic, buy it.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
hence, no way a red kit will be worth 5k.
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Who mentioned a kit? A Red One body will be worth around $5k.

If you want to talk kit.... an R1 kit will be worth much less than a fully kitted out S35.

I could put together a very nice S35 kit for $20k (based on CF, like R1), so think $10k-$12k for a 2nd hand R1-MX kit.

and "man", I will buy a panny if I want.... you make it sound like an idiot's decision.... yet we have not even seen footage yet.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
why do u think s35 scarlet is ready? no facts out there asfaik
it is clearly stated that the rollout will be epic, fixed scarlet, non fixed scarlet, s35 scarlet.

but subject to change ;)
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Where did I say that it was ready? I said "IF." I understand that it's not ready this point.

What I'm saying is, if RED is sticking to this "rollout order" so that the S35 Scarlet doesn't steal sales from the EPIC, IMHO, that's a ridiculous business practice. No where did I accuse RED of doing that...but that's what's being suggested by the posters on the forum.
 
Mike,

There is more speculation on some of these forums than known information. It's a bit of a fun to try to guess what is coming out and why. Check out the discussion with the first HDR image and you'll find many, many posts trying to figure out the process with many of those being suggested multiple times because the posters aren't reading the whole thread. Unfortunately, all the guessing fun can become FUD if taken too seriously.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the guesses being launched and judging the company by excited, anticipating users. As the projected release dates are far behind for any DMSC cameras, just accept the roll-out as the need for the tech to develop into working cameras. They can't develop them all at the same time, but each new model gains from the experience of the previous.

Here is some more speculation: If Red were so concerned about one model eating into another's sales, they wouldn't have announced all of them at the same time, [and would release information] like the long-existing camera companies do.

If the speculation is bugging you, stick to the official announcements for a time. I do that when my brains starts to swirl with excess maybes.
 
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Stuart English said:
Concern noted, but we'll see.

Last time I checked, we were not in Jan 2011 yet ....

...or are we ? :-)
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I've been noticing lots of comments like this on Reduser these days. Makes me happy:) I'm pretty sure, that they are pretty sure the cameras will be released before the end of the year. Not gonna get too excited just yet, but man the Red team is dropping hints! Thank you.
 
Danny Lingan said:
There is more speculation on some of these forums than known information.
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+1

I just want to know what it is and when it will come out to understand if I can fit it into my work pipeline / what compromises I will have to make / what supporting gear we will have to budget for.

Speculation is useless and as far as Panasonic goes.. last I heard they were pretty highly respected and more important respect us as well: they meet their stated release dates and don't leave us hanging.

Sure with the AF100 there are compromises. There are always compromises. But, as I said I dream about 32bit float 4:4:4 color but have to make compromises about that as well...
 
Hi, Steve. Thanks for the thumbs-up.

I followed your conversation yesterday and I think I understand your situation. If you're ready to shoot, you have to go with what's available. Do what you need to do.

If you're like me, you only have enough to invest in one system at the moment and hate the idea of having a far superior choice come out just after you've emptied your account on a big compromise.

As far as respect is concerned... I see things differently. Red didn't miss their expected dates because they don't value me. They missed because they're a new company doing what's never been done before in revolutionary steps and with the requisite growing pains and an over-optimistic time-line (or hazy crystal ball).

I think a company that didn't respect their customers and the industry would never have their president and "Manhattan Project" developers chatting on web forums on company time. And these brilliant developers have been taking advice from highly honored and respected pros at the top of the art and business as well as a bunch of proles with something to say in a forum available to anyone with internet access.

Panasonic is repackaging pre-existing, proven technology already implemented in other products. Read Scott Billup's great book and you'll find most of their tech advances were probably in the pipeline years ago. Their service, distribution, repairs and maintenance, research and development, loyal customer base and business partnerships have been baked in for decades. It's great stuff, but not the leap RED is making.

But that Panasonic pre-existing support structure may be what you really need in the moment. There's nothing wrong with going with the tried and true if it gives you what you want/need.

We're all feeling a bit of the sting of sitting at the bleeding edge.

Good luck on your project!
 
Danny Lingan said:
Mike,

There is more speculation on some of these forums than known information. It's a bit of a fun to try to guess what is coming out and why. Check out the discussion with the first HDR image and you'll find many, many posts trying to figure out the process with many of those being suggested multiple times because the posters aren't reading the whole thread. Unfortunately, all the guessing fun can become FUD if taken too seriously.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the guesses being launched and judging the company by excited, anticipating users. As the projected release dates are far behind for any DMSC cameras, just accept the roll-out as the need for the tech to develop into working cameras. They can't develop them all at the same time, but each new model gains from the experience of the previous.

Here is some more speculation: If Red were so concerned about one model eating into another's sales, they wouldn't have announced all of them at the same time, like the long-existing camera companies do.

If the speculation is bugging you, stick to the official announcements for a time. I do that when my brains starts to swirl with excess maybes.
Click to expand...


Fantastic response - taken note! Thank you.
 
Thank you Danny. I think you are quite right of your appraisal of my situation.

Part of me loves to follow the progress of this amazing technology but it is true - I have projects on the shelf and I'm bothered to even wait until the end of the year for the AF100. But, at least there's a definite date in sight that I can rely on.

Cheers!
 
Steve Kahn said:
Thank you Danny. I think you are quite right of your appraisal of my situation.

Part of me loves to follow the progress of this amazing technology but it is true - I have projects on the shelf and I'm bothered to even wait until the end of the year for the AF100. But, at least there's a definite date in sight that I can rely on.

Cheers!
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Steve - you have piqued my curiosity to the point that I have to ask the question, if you don't mind. What are you shooting on now?
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
the scarlet brain is 7 k usd i guess, with all the modules, assecoires, batteries, baseplates, topplates and storage add another 13k to 18k, so a scarlet s35 will cost around 20-25k usd without lenses.
Click to expand...

I think it's likely that RED will make a Scarlet S35 Starter's Kit, with the most basic modules you need for a good price.

It would be amazing if they could put out a kit with the brain, all the basic modules you need to shoot and a couple of 16 GB CF cards for 9K or 10K. (not sure it could happen)

Above 10K the camera starts moving away from indie, prosumer and "mortals" into bigger, established Pros territory.
 
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Terry VerHaar said:
Steve - you have piqued my curiosity to the point that I have to ask the question, if you don't mind. What are you shooting on now?
Click to expand...

Nothing Terry. I'm on hold until the AF100 comes out. We've got three or four shorts in queue as well as a feature we're trying to secure a major location for next summer. (all very low budget stuff) Still, I'm itching to shoot ASAP.

I am a writer as well so I (or my manager actually) is pitching a couple of feature length projects that are far to big for me to ever consider producing myself. One of them just got great coverage from Scott Rudin and Media 8. I can't mention the name or the concept here but if you'd like to give it a read I'd be glad to email a copy to you. Very proud of that work.

Best,
Steve
 
Alexey Datsenko said:
The key point is time.

Panasonic will realese Panasonic Ag AF100 - in December - January - camera for digital cinema
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I think Panasonic/Sony/Canon need another 4-5 years at the rate they are going before they release something that in my books is 'decent' enough to be classified as digital cinema ready. 1080P with AVCHD at 24mbits is NOT cinema grade - its consumer grade.

To use an analogy, the impact on RED is probably the same as the impact Hyundai and Kia had to Mercedes Benz and Lexus when Hyundai and Kia released their own 'Luxury' cars.

The reality is that Panasonic/Sony/Etc are releasing crippled cameras as long as they feel they can milk consumers with incremental minor upgrades..

Now, I'm not an engineer, but I do not think it would be that difficult for companies like Pana/Sony/Canon (with all their years of optical/digital camera experience) to design a camera that captures at 4K resolution at variable compression rates using JPEG/JPEG2000, wrap it up in a mjpeg stream and allow the sensor to capture at variable fps rates (1-30FPS at 2K at 30-60FPS).

Then you add the standard features like zebra, volume control, iris control, audio capture and so forth..

RED had the disadvantage in that it started from scratch, and what they have achieved in such a short period of time is nothing short of amazing..
 
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