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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

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Some context.

Whilst RED rolled out the first so called "4k" kit that was suitable for owner operators, it wasn't because the rest of the industry were not interested in pushing the envelope or creating a better image, for they considered 4k not a large enough jump from HD and had their sights set on 8k instead.
Sony and others have delivered modules for the back of cameras for twenty years, dockable recorders, fibre links, HDSDI outputs, 4 channel audio inputs ect.
In the f55 they have released a camera with features many have been asking RED to deliver for 5 years; global shutter and filter wheel.
So it can hardly be claimed that Sony are techno copy cats.


In respect to the competition, I doubt that one camera can be built at the moment that can compete with the combined feature set and "looks" from Arri, Sony and Panavision.
A choice is good for the industry.

Jim wrote the other day that 90% of his customers were indies, this is a segment that is very price sensitive, but, based on experience with other manufacturers, I suspect there is very large profit margin on Epic that can be trimmed now R&D has apparently been recovered.

The question is, can Red lower prices and still afford to offer sensibly priced upgrades to keep the Epic from being seen to become obsolete?

Perhaps they should be making a new TRUE 8K camera rather than continuing to update the resolution of the Epic for years to come?
By all means continue to tweake the feature set so the 4k camera but build a new >8k camera?

Two cameras, two resolutions, two price points?





Mike Brennan
DP
Melbourne
 
Michael Brennan said:
Some context.

Whilst RED rolled out the first so called "4k" kit that was suitable for owner operators, it wasn't because the rest of the industry were not interested in pushing the envelope or creating a better image, for they considered 4k not a large enough jump from HD and had their sights set on 8k instead.
Sony and others have delivered modules for the back of cameras for twenty years, dockable recorders, fibre links, HDSDI outputs, 4 channel audio inputs ect.
In the f55 they have released a camera with features many have been asking RED to deliver for 5 years; global shutter and filter wheel.
So it can hardly be claimed that Sony are techno copy cats.


In respect to the competition, I doubt that one camera can be built at the moment that can compete with the combined feature set and "looks" from Arri, Sony and Panavision.
A choice is good for the industry.

Jim wrote the other day that 90% of his customers were indies, this is a segment that is very price sensitive, but, based on experience with other manufacturers, I suspect there is very large profit margin on Epic that can be trimmed now R&D has apparently been recovered.

The question is, can Red lower prices and still afford to offer sensibly priced upgrades to keep the Epic from being seen to become obsolete?

Perhaps they should be making a new TRUE 8K camera rather than continuing to update the resolution of the Epic for years to come?
By all means continue to tweake the feature set so the 4k camera but build a new >8k camera?

Two cameras, two resolutions, two price points?





Mike Brennan
DP
Melbourne
Click to expand...

Monstro.
 
Is the announcement still coming today? I've read through all these pages, by now $50 off and a Starbucks gift card would be nice.. :/
 
Bob Gundu said:
I'm going to stick up for the younger generation who will supposedly tarnish the RED name. The craft of filmmaking which was once accessible to those that went to school, has suddenly become an affordable hobby available to anyone with some ambition and a dream. For many years I used to train students young and old, on how to use 3D animation software. Hands down, the young kids that have never had any exposure to anything like it, were the ones that blew me away. We need to stop thinking about this elitist attitude and elevating status towards technology purely on cost. Technology is changing so rapidly that your business model shouldn't rely on paying off the gear in a year or two. It has to be within a few jobs or it's not worth to buy. So I'm sorry for those that have invested a lot, but the writing was on the wall. Everything you think you know about this business is about to turn upside down. We are the old dogs about to get our asses kicked. Adapt or die. Red set out to make affordable gear for the indie filmmakers and they will continue to do so. This price cut is only the beginning. Things will continue to get cheaper. You can bet on that. Buying expensive gear does not get you ahead. Buying the most expensive shovel doesn't guarantee a better hole. Sorry for the rant. The sooner we get on with the new regime, the better.
Click to expand...

Bravo! Great attitude & perspective
 
Terry VerHaar said:
You know the old saying about ASS/U/ME.

As for talking about how others "feel" - I didn't think that was the issue in this discussion. Of course people "feel" disappointed or angry or upset or cheated or fearful. But the real issue is the rational thought behind running a business and acting and thinking rationally. I am not contesting anyone's "feelings." My comments have been pointed at those who can't seem to get used to the idea that an "investment" in technology with an expectation of stable prices and/or value, is a fool's bet from the beginning. Would it make you "feel" better if I "felt" sorry for all of us who paid full price for our equipment? (Doesn't change the rationale of the actions people have taken.) :smiley:

I don't think you mean "literally" worthless. If that's the case, send it along to me - I'll pay shipping. LOL
Click to expand...

PM me your address and you can have my 640GB Red drives that I paid $1200 and waited 6 months for, for free. I couldn't sell them for anything. I use them to dump random stuff on. Cool paper weight though.

The original Red 18-50mm zoom? Yeah, $6000 piece of glass I couldn't sell for $2000. No glass depreciates that much.

Literally any R1 premium priced accessory is worthless today. Quad battery module? Try giving them away. Red CF cards, bought for $1200 sold for $350 a year later, I had to throw in 3 extra cards to do it. 7" Red monitor? Bought for $3500, worthless today. Bomb EVF? Bought for $3200, waited a year for it, never worked right, six months later new OLED EVF is out, yours for extra $1200!

I can go on but why. You are a Scarlet hobbyist, none of it applies to you.

PM me and you can have a cool Red drive paper weight. You are welcome!
 
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Milan Spasic said:
PM me your address and you can have my 640GB Red drives that I paid $1200 and waited 6 months for, for free. I couldn't sell them for anything. I use them to dump random stuff on. Cool paper weight though.

The original Red 18-50mm zoom? Yeah, $6000 piece of glass I couldn't sell for $2000.

Literally any R1 premium priced accessory is worthless today. Quad battery module? Try giving them away. Red CF cards, bought for $1200 sold for $350 a year later. 7" Red monitor? Bought for $3500, worthless today. Bomb EVF? Bought for $3200, waited a year for it, never worked right, six months later new OLED EVF is out, yours for extra $1200!

I can go on but why. You are a Scarlet hobbyist, none of it applies to you.

PM me and you can have a cool Red drive paper weight. You are welcome!
Click to expand...
I thought RED was offering a half price trade in on those old drives when you buy SSD media. No wonder you are in such bad shape... you don't pay attention.
 
Michael Brennan said:
Some context.

Whilst RED rolled out the first so called "4k" kit that was suitable for owner operators, it wasn't because the rest of the industry were not interested in pushing the envelope or creating a better image, for they considered 4k not a large enough jump from HD and had their sights set on 8k instead.
Sony and others have delivered modules for the back of cameras for twenty years, dockable recorders, fibre links, HDSDI outputs, 4 channel audio inputs ect.
In the f55 they have released a camera with features many have been asking RED to deliver for 5 years; global shutter and filter wheel.
So it can hardly be claimed that Sony are techno copy cats. ...
Click to expand...

I want to put a bullet in my head.

I read marketing materials, attended industry events, studied white-papers, watched online presentations... and EVERY SINGLE ONE SAID THAT 4K WAS OVER-KILL BECAUSE THE HUMAN EYE COULD ONLY RESOLVE 2K/1080P IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF VIEWING ENVIRONMENTS. So to now claim that these same industry players were aiming for 8K all along is nonsensical. They believed the human eye could not resolve 4K but that it could resolve 8K? WTF? Certainly they know 8 > 4.

As for techno copy cating, it's taken Sony FIVE years to announce a 4K camera with RAW recording capabilities in the price range of the Red One/Scarlet. Actually, perhaps you're right... draggin ass might be a better description.
 
Milan Spasic said:
PM me your address and you can have my 640GB Red drives that I paid $1200 and waited 6 months for, for free. I couldn't sell them for anything. I use them to dump random stuff on. Cool paper weight though.

The original Red 18-50mm zoom? Yeah, $6000 piece of glass I couldn't sell for $2000.

Literally any R1 premium priced accessory is worthless today. Quad battery module? Try giving them away. Red CF cards, bought for $1200 sold for $350 a year later. 7" Red monitor? Bought for $3500, worthless today. Bomb EVF? Bought for $3200, waited a year for it, never worked right, six months later new OLED EVF is out, yours for extra $1200!

I can go on but why. You are a Scarlet hobbyist, none of it applies to you.

PM me and you can have a cool Red drive paper weight. You are welcome!
Click to expand...

Do you say the same things when you buy a new car and drive it off the lot? Things depreciate. Everything does.
 
Elsie N said:
I thought RED was offering a half price trade in on those old drives when you buy SSD media. No wonder you are in such bad shape... you don't pay attention.
Click to expand...

It seems that you were the one not paying attention. Red offered a Red drive trade in, $500 for the $3200 SSD. Now selling for $2450.

The price was reduced not even 4 months later.
 
Gary Stone said:
Do you say the same things when you buy a new car and drive it off the lot? Things depreciate. Everything does.
Click to expand...

+1

It sounds like he may have been using his R1 as a paperweight too. That ain't gonna make anyone any money.
 
Well, you should have sold those drives to Leo Ticheli when you had the chance. He was very upset when RED said they were coming out with SSDs and discontinuing the Red drives. You could have gotten full price for those I bet from those who wanted technology to stand still.
 
Milan Spasic said:
PM me your address and you can have my 640GB Red drives that I paid $1200 and waited 6 months for, for free. I couldn't sell them for anything. I use them to dump random stuff on. Cool paper weight though.

The original Red 18-50mm zoom? Yeah, $6000 piece of glass I couldn't sell for $2000. No glass depreciates that much.

Literally any R1 premium priced accessory is worthless today. Quad battery module? Try giving them away. Red CF cards, bought for $1200 sold for $350 a year later, I had to throw in 3 extra cards to do it. 7" Red monitor? Bought for $3500, worthless today. Bomb EVF? Bought for $3200, waited a year for it, never worked right, six months later new OLED EVF is out, yours for extra $1200!

I can go on but why. You are a Scarlet hobbyist, none of it applies to you.

PM me and you can have a cool Red drive paper weight. You are welcome!
Click to expand...


Haha - I leave you with your own self-inflicted agony and misery. And your bitterness for all those who seem to have worked it out where you haven't.

i changed my mind about taking your "literally worthless" stuff. I hope that doesn't blow your business plan.
 
Milan Spasic said:
It seems that you were the one not paying attention. Red offered a Red drive trade in, $500 for the $3200 SSD. Now selling for $2450.

The price was reduced not even 4 months later.
Click to expand...

You're buying stuff, then getting stuck in the mud miles back while everyone else is up with the pack. Get yourself out, stop complaining, and move on. Make some money off your gear and see the healthy profits roll in. If you're not doing that, you're doing it wrong. If you're not aware of depreciation, I'm not even sure what to say to you.
 
Milan, I went and looked at your website. Your work looks very very good. I can't say for for sure, but I would think it got better as you went along. If I were you, I would recognize that as money well spent.
 
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