Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

[John semikian]

Your only saying that so that the EPIC can be in your price range, so that you can buy one. Hey man for your sakes, and others in your position I'm glad the price is going down. But for my sakes and people in my position I'm not glad.

Really? that's all you got from all those points I made. honestly I don't need RED to drop their price. I can just go and buy and F5 or the 1DC when it comes out. that's what I was trying to tell you. RED will die. cause more and more people like me will not buy and RED will have hit their ceiling in sales already, which for such a young company means death.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Really? that's all you got from all those points I made. honestly I don't need RED to drop their price. I can just go and buy and F5 or the 1DC when it comes out. that's what I was trying to tell you. RED will die. cause more and more people like me will not buy and RED will have hit their ceiling in sales already, which for such a young company means death.

The only thing holding you back from RED is a lower cost brain? I find that hard to believe, given how much money I spent on RED accessories, and time I invested in learning the camera and the post-workflow.

 

[John semikian]

Indeed. We are spec What drives decisions like this are business goals. RED has NOT given a clue about their business goal here. If the goal is to just get as many brains sold as possible, then, that's a whole different goal than the one I THINK is RED's goal - which is to compete effectively with new 4K cameras coming out.

I'm guessing (and hoping) RED's goal is the latter. ulating here.

.

my friend getting as many brains into people's hands does not mean butcher the price and flood the market. it means to compete with current competition at a slightly lower price and win the price war without completely destroying the worth of the camera. this in turn will bring in more customers. which will then reduce the price of the workflow add ons. I don't remember how many Epics were out there but last I checked the number was not too high. this limits the possible number of orders made on modules and Red Rockets which then handcuffs a company to a high price for those add ons because of accounting principles. now if the number was double (if there were twice as many Epics out there then their are now) and believe me the market still wouldn't be flooded cause the number is really low right now, then the possible orders for modules and Rockets would also double which in turn using basic accounting principles would mean a lower forecasted price for those add ons.

I'm sorry to those who bought it at a high price and feel ripped off, but in the end you will all benefit by having more RED owners (just like Apple customers immensely benefited when iPods and iPhones were in everyone's hands) cause RED will be a stronger healthier company that can offer modules and add ons for lower prices, because of the sheer volume of customers. like I said the customers are going to go somewhere, and not many people know and trust RED like we do. Everyone knows Sony and Canon. this competition from them at this price point is not a joke that should be taken lightly.

 

[John semikian]

The only thing holding you back from RED is a lower cost brain? I find that hard to believe, given how much money I spent on RED accessories, and time I invested in learning the camera and the post-workflow.

read my earlier post.. more brains in the world means lower cost everything else.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

read my earlier post.. more brains in the world means lower cost everything else.

So you are suggesting that RED's business goal is to lower cost on everything?

And you think the means to do that is by lowering cost on the brains? Which you think will increase volume of accessories sold? And then, RED can lower cost on those?

If so, I can't agree with this approach. And hope RED isn't planning on such trickle-down economics and instead takes the bull by the horns and LOWERS DIRECTLY the cost of the solution. Period.

 

[John semikian]

So you are suggesting that RED's business goal is to lower cost on everything?

And you think the means to do that is by lowering cost on the brains? Which you think will increase volume of accessories sold? And then, RED can lower cost on those?

If so, I can't agree with this approach. And hope RED isn't planning on such trickle-down economics and instead takes the bull by the horns and LOWERS DIRECTLY the cost of the solution. Period.

how can you be so bold in your statement? you don't know the financial initial investment made on those modules and rockets. if at that price they have it now they need to sell to 50% of all Red owners to break even how can they drop the price? and how much? a $100 or $1000 and how much more will sell if they drop $1000? if it will only sell 5% more units then they actually wouldn't have helped their investment by doing that. I'm sorry man but this is simple economics. you can not presume they can just lower the price without actually knowing the initial investment amount and costs associated. but you can 100% assume that they can lower the price if they had more customers or RED camera owners. trickle down? lol this isn't trickle down like in politics, this is consumer based and never fails.

 

[Peer Landa]

I simply am not too interested in some lines of work, since they - despite giving me money - just makes me sad.

Others have different perspectives, and I totally respect that.

But to me, value is not measured in cash, but in images and satisfaction with life and work.

Well, keep in mind that Gunleik is from Norway -- hence, his entire value system is upside-down. Who wants to be happy when you can have money instead?! Crazy!

-- peer

(jepp, også jeg er Norsk -- fra Ryfylke ;^)

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

how can you be so bold in your statement?

RED taught me well.

 

[Elsie N]

101 pages of discussion about a drop in price as though the price reduction is about cameras. And I guess that's understandable since cameras are what RED is primarily known for. But I think the cameras are coming down in price to act almost like a loss leader even though their sales will still be profitable.

All I'm saying is try not to concentrate on one type of product. Think RED SYSTEM. RED Digital Cinema is becoming a company that paints with broad strokes.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

... But I think the cameras are coming down in price to act almost like a loss leader even though their sales will still be profitable.

People would see through this strategy and it doesn't serve RED's desire to be transparent. Sell brains as a loss leader and reap profits from needed accessories that really help it compete with the other options is a really old and tired strategy and that isn't RED's style.

RED needs to be direct as its always been. Lower the solution cost, and don't focus on the brain cost alone.

 

[Eric Santiago]

http://www.sony.nl/pro/lang/en/nl/article/broadcast-professional-camcorders-pmw-f55-video

I like the EPIC

 

[Elsie N]

People would see through this strategy and it doesn't serve RED's desire to be transparent. Sell brains as a loss leader and reap profits from needed accessories that really help it compete with the other options is a really old and tired strategy and that isn't RED's style.

RED needs to be direct as its always been. Lower the solution cost, and don't focus on the brain cost alone.

Just sayin' the more people you have using your capture product, the more people who will buy your exhibition product.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Just sayin' the more people you have using your capture product, the more people who will buy your exhibition product.

Ah yes, indeed. I hope RED is in this mode of thinking of the pipeline of products they have, and lowering the costs for the overall solution. Given they are talking about a lowering of costs TODAY, and since acquisition/post are the elements in play as of today, I hope they end up lowering the cost for those two across their product portfolio.

 

[Aaron C Smith]

Elsie, that same logic really applies both ways. If someone is buying a Red Epic, it is almost 100% guaranteed they will be spending a significant amount of money on accessories REQUIRED to operate the camera.

I think the debate here is really about the fact that by decreasing prices across the board and not just the brain, it could be a positive impact on all owners of Epic cameras, not just the new would-be customers of Sony / etc.

But again, I really do think Jim, Jarred, and their team of business experts probably have a better understanding of what they are doing than any of us, and I think everyone will reap the benefits eventually, even if it hurts a little bit at first.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

I think the debate here is really about the fact that by decreasing prices across the board and not just the brain, it could be a positive impact on all owners of Epic cameras, not just the new would-be customers of Sony / etc.

But again, I really do think Jim, Jarred, and their team of business experts probably have a better understanding of what they are doing than any of us, and I think everyone will reap the benefits eventually, even if it hurts a little bit at first.

Agreed. It all depends on their business goal, which they could NEVER share with the public (which includes their competitors). So we can only speculate, both on the business goal, and how they may try and achieve it. Its fun, but in the end, not really our call. If indeed they are scanning these forums for suggestions and ideas, I hope they got something worthwhile out of these 100+ pages.

 

[Peer Landa]

The only people here who own an Epic and would not be negatively affected by a price drop (whether they realize it or not) are people who are not existing Red customers and hobbyists.

How silly. How utterly illogic. How can you "own an Epic" and NOT be an "existing Red customer"..?! Pray tell.


-- peer

 

[John semikian]

How silly. How utterly illogic. How can you "own an Epic" and NOT be an "existing Red customer"..?! Pray tell.


-- peer

logic and this thread seem not to play nice together .. Sometimes I wish this forum would just be taken down until 5pm tomorrow. I know I can just keep away and stop reading posts but I can't help myself it's like watching a bad car accident or even bad porn, you should just look away but can't. Lol.

maybe I like getting angry at the illogical or completely biased arguments I keep reading about what's best for RED. Those who truly care about the survival and health of RED moving forward will be announcing their decision tomorrow. Everyone else here has something to gain or lose from the outcome.

 

[charles lim yi yong]

Yea, to talk about art is "cringe-ful" and "cheesy" -- how very objective of you.

-- peer

Yes, when its used in this way to dis enlighten a subject. Its like being put in Socrates' cave.

 

[Peer Landa]

Yes, when its used in this way to dis enlighten a subject. Its like being put in Socrates' cave.

No no no -- I called you out on being disingenuous; You were subjectively referring to other peoples posts as "cringe-ful" and "cheesy" while at the same time claiming you were objective. I.e., the pot calling the kettle black.

-- peer

 

[Nick Morrison]

Truth is, this is WAR. Sony is dropping ICBM's, and now RED is retaliating. As THEY SHOULD. This is is a TAKE NO PRISONERS battle for supremacy in a market that RED CREATED.

No one took 4K seriously until RED made it a de-facto standard. And now...a sleeping, wounded giant (have you SEEN Sony's stock price?), has decided they WANT IN.

Well, unfortunately, they are taking on a SMALLER, MORE NIMBLE company (RED) that is run by a mad genius that clearly couldn't give a sh*t about making profits. Which gives him the strength to be a DAVID in a world of GOLIATHS.

What's happening right now goes WAY BEYOND $$$.

For Sony, it's a chance to prove they are still relevant.

For RED, it's a chance to slay another Goliath that wants them dead. And an opportunity to remind the industry that you can't beat them with a sticker price. They only way to win this war is to CREATE THE BEST CAMERA.

And, well, we ALL KNOW what that camera's called. It breathes fire, spits lead, and roars like a DRAGON.


Haha. What Sony doesn't realize is that this WAR they've begun is already OVER.