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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic-W

Steve Conry said:
You've had your weapon for months no? If you rent it at its true value (whether that's to shooters or just to your clients) you would have only had to do it ~10x to cover the difference if you choose to upgrade. While it might be frustrating, it does seem that sometimes early adopters pay a premium as technology progresses, and their only recourse is the opportunity to make money off it while others are still waiting.

As for red changing out your sensor for less, that seems like a bad business move, as it seems every sensor from MX to now has cost about 9-10k. I don't see red re-using your sensor unless of course it's "battle tested", but then they would have to sell it at a discount. I know I wouldn't pay full price for a weapon with your sensor in it :/
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My MG isn't a premium first time owner. The rental houses already had their CFs going when I received my MG and I haven't been able to get together a working production package since March when I got it, due to some accessories not being finished or working at the same time as the camera seemingly having a dead internal battery with timecode not working. The cost of a Scarlet-W is massively lower than a Weapon MG, the difference in price doesn't make any sense at all. It's like if I keep my MG now, then Red will probably give us MG owners a deal six months from now to upgrade to a full Weapon Helium or maybe even 8K VV for like $12000, which ain't gonna happen but that's the kind of deal Scarlet-W owners are getting here in comparison.

And not all people rent out their cameras, they use it on their own jobs and the revenue back is slower than by purely renting out. So justifying the massive advantage Scarlet-W orders get by saying I should have rented out my camera like hell to get my money back doesn't erase the fact that we almost wasted $15 000 by going MG instead of Scarlet-W to Epic-W.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
My MG isn't a premium first time owner. The rental houses already had their CFs going when I received my MG and I haven't been able to get together a working production package since March when I got it, due to some accessories not being finished or working at the same time as the camera seemingly having a dead internal battery with timecode not working. The cost of a Scarlet-W is massively lower than a Weapon MG, the difference in price doesn't make any sense at all. It's like if I keep my MG now, then Red will probably give us MG owners a deal six months from now to upgrade to a full Weapon Helium or maybe even 8K VV for like $12000, which ain't gonna happen but that's the kind of deal Scarlet-W owners are getting here in comparison.

And not all people rent out their cameras, they use it on their own jobs and the revenue back is slower than by purely renting out. So justifying the massive advantage Scarlet-W orders get by saying I should have rented out my camera like hell to get my money back doesn't erase the fact that we almost wasted $15 000 by going MG instead of Scarlet-W to Epic-W.
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And lets not forget, if you had chosen Scarlet-W to Epic-W, you you still have your Epic Dragon, making 2 available cameras at the end of the day, which can cater to 2 different client / price budgets. In thesame boat as you, got my camera in July and worst still, had Error 0x0000001d on Aug 27 (barely 5 weeks of receiving the camera, on its 4th rental!) Now the camera is back at Red and still there. It just beats me when S-W $1k depositors complain (especially the "we tied down funds arguement"). I feel like asking them, so what about Mg pre-orders that had to pay $5k deposit still had to wait almost 7-8months before getting call up to send in their Dragon brain, better still folks that had 10k depo for VV 18months ago!
Surely doesn't always add up and I bet there's just no sure way to make all the groups happy 100%. However, to be fair to Red, they always manage to find a middle ground, that said, it STINKS to be standing in my spot right now. No cam, funds truly tied down, and serious (rental) competition is coming, from E-W (o sorry winter is coming, lets just say Red has created the Whitewalkers, afterall we all got the impression MX was EOL, now they have risen)
 
Reminds me a little of the 50% price drop on the Epic that affected things for some people (myself included). Stuff reduces in price over time - that's life, it seems.

In light of this, looks like I'd have been better staying MX rather than going Epic Dragon - would love to move to Weapon (of some type)... but, I always end up the wrong side of RED's announcements :)
 
Andy White said:
Reminds me a little of the 50% price drop on the Epic that affected things for some people (myself included). Stuff reduces in price over time - that's life, it seems.

In light of this, looks like I'd have been better staying MX rather than going Epic Dragon - would love to move to Weapon (of some type)... but, I always end up the wrong side of RED's announcements :)
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The Weapon MG is too new to be afflicted by any price drops around it. You can't compare Epic which had been around for some time, with this. Some people have just got their MG that they ordered, some have had problems with their camera since they got it. Price drops happen, I agree but complaining about that is something else. This thing however is pretty skewed based on the information we've got so far.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
My MG isn't a premium first time owner. The rental houses already had their CFs going when I received my MG and I haven't been able to get together a working production package since March when I got it, due to some accessories not being finished or working at the same time as the camera seemingly having a dead internal battery with timecode not working. The cost of a Scarlet-W is massively lower than a Weapon MG, the difference in price doesn't make any sense at all. It's like if I keep my MG now, then Red will probably give us MG owners a deal six months from now to upgrade to a full Weapon Helium or maybe even 8K VV for like $12000, which ain't gonna happen but that's the kind of deal Scarlet-W owners are getting here in comparison.

And not all people rent out their cameras, they use it on their own jobs and the revenue back is slower than by purely renting out. So justifying the massive advantage Scarlet-W orders get by saying I should have rented out my camera like hell to get my money back doesn't erase the fact that we almost wasted $15 000 by going MG instead of Scarlet-W to Epic-W.
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As a Weapon MG owner sure the numbers don't add up for us and yes sounds not fair right now, but we're only seeing a small and limited side of a part of the whole picture. I'm sure RED will have a fair deal for us going to either Epic W (which will cost the same as the MG) and/or upgrading to Weapon Helium.

It's all speculation until October 11!
 
Any reason to believe Epic-W would be anything other than a Weapon MG 6k but with a Helium 6k (maybe 6.5k) sensor? So S35 sized or just under. So probably a slightly smaller, higher resolution sensor than Scarlet-W but with Weapon internals for higher framerates/bitrates. Especially given that it's in the MG price range. But maybe they will give it a little more resolution since the smaller sensor may be easier to produce and It'd be hard to justify a $30k camera with a sensor smaller than S35 so it'd need to be at least 6.5K.

Seems like the jury is still out on Helium performance though. Frankly it seems like Helium has 1stop less highlights which isn't awesome, and I'd sort of rather have less resolution and larger sensor but if it's really a $10k upgrade for those of us waiting for S-W it might be worth it just to get a more capable camera and get a big discount on it which helps protect against depreciation. Here's hoping Helium makes up at least 1-2 extra stops in the shadows.

I'd love for Epic-W to have an 8k helium but that would really seem to screw over a lot of people who spent $60k for 8k REDs... And really 8k is just too much data for most things, especially in the red price range. Here's hoping they are going to add an 8k>4k binning mode... Knowing red and their obsession with OLPFs they wont though.

Makes sense that helium might be cheaper for RED to produce given smaller newer sensors. Probably everyone wins if they push their Epic-W over the regular Dragon Weapons...
 
I expect it to be 8K.

Anything over 6K but under 8K seems awkward.
Isn't 8K the next display standard after 4K? Correct me if I'm wrong.

5K gives a nice 4K downscale.
6K gives nice room to reframe at 5.5K or 5K and still get a good downscale to 4K.
7K seems like "damn, we just missed 8K"
 
By the way jarred said in the update thread epic-w will be 8k
 
Oh man, if they are making 8k more affordable they might have to start introducing higher compression ratio options so it's actually still affordable... Or maybe a 4k binned from 8k raw mode?
 
Epic-W will be 8k. Jarred confirmed it. what isn't confirmed is that it will be S35 and what frame rates.

Haven't upgraded my Dragon and frame rates and sensor size will decide if I go DSMC2 or not... I really hope I can get a Stormstrooper spec upgrade that will be reasonable... I'm sure red will have us covered!
 
Sergio Perez said:
Epic-W will be 8k. Jarred confirmed it. what isn't confirmed is that it will be S35 and what frame rates.
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Sergio, Epic-W will be S35 at 7K.

8K Helium...is same size as 6K Dragon...ie s35+

120fps will be at 4K, but in Helium 4K is closer to s16 size crop.
 
Phil Holland said:
Speculation is beautiful chaos. October is soon however.
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+1

I am sure that we have to wait till October 11th to get all the information. Maybe Jarred will give us more hints before the official announcement. Anything else is just speculation.
 
Phil Holland said:
Speculation is beautiful chaos. October is soon however.
Click to expand...

Hehe, you guys in the know must be having a ball with our speculating, impatient hearts...
 
Milano Questa said:
And you know this how? Where does it say Epic-W is 7k?
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The pixel size of the Helium, 3.65 microns.
24.9mm (S35) / 0.00365=6821 pixels (7k)
The Epic-W is 8k so the full sensor will be around 30mm large but you'll crop to 7k to shoot smaller S35 format.
 
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