Epic underwater housings

[Jon Nash]

Are there any companies out there looking at making plans for a underwater housing for the Epic?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hehe, bit me to it Jon

Since we are at it, also interested in finding out any one planning on building one for the ATOM rig as well

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

I've asked gates, and they were interested if anyone could send one over to them (this might be a little early, unless ET could do it once for us....)
would be a time saver for many of us.

 

[Johnny Friday]

I am confident you'll find Gates has plans for an Epic underwater housing. My guess is that it will come out about 6 months after production releases of Epics...mind you only a guess based on past building by Gates.

...I'll bet if you have the $$$, you can get Gates to house you an Atom rig. Well, let me refrase that. IF you have the $$$, Gates will build you a one off 3d rig in the Atom or whatever you desire.

Great work at Gates and gear you can count on even after beating the living hell out of it. I might also mention that Joe over at ET does some very amazing work as well and he takes on private projects as well on a limited basis. If you don't know Joe....that's Hector's father. The one that brought the old school knowledge of machining to the LA streets. Can't say enough about Joe and his work.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Yeah Gates they do great Job in did, and absolutely so does ET

I believe that the original Gates for the R1 might even work for the Epic, however I'm most certain would need a new Back Control window.

 

[Joe Kleber]

We have sent out EPIC data and dummy models to several companies making 3D rigs and UW housings. One company has begun development on a new module. I expect more to follow.

You may have noticed that ET has released a 3D rig made exclusively for EPIC... called ATOM.

Jim

Maybe one of these companies is GATES. :thumbsup:

 

[Michael Hastings]

Are there any companies out there looking at making plans for a underwater housing for the Epic?

Jon: I will definitely be making housings for Epic. I may be in line for an Epic-M but even if not I'm Stage 2 SN206 so should have mine fairly early. I made the first RED1 housing using Gibby's serial number 8 just a few weeks after the first cameras were delivered - and may be able to do the same with the Epics. I've already got a basic housing built, just need to finalize lens height and make the frontplate. Size will be about 9" diameter (same as our RED1 housing - which was the most compact- but much shorter.) Going much smaller in diameter, even if possible, wouldn't save much as far as volume and would limit lens options - although I'm sure we'll make some supercompact versions for special use. As far as price, since it's late I'll just copy a post from another thread a little while ago.

Hi Michael,

Well, if you tested the Sigma and you like the footage then i have no doubt...
As soon as i have my Epic camera will contact you for underwater housing. I know it's too early to ask, but more or less is there any info about the prise of the housing for the Epic and Scarlet?

Peter

About the same as RED1 ~$6500 PVC or $8500 Alum - with the addition of about $1000-1200 for the REDMOTE control (maybe in a separate box).

May make a glass dome standard which normally would raise the cost by about $1700 but if I make all of them might get the added cost down to only about a little over half of that.

Now that Jim has given us a fairly clear idea of when we will have SN206, I will probably start taking deposits for places in line later this month (January).

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Happy New Year,

GATES is already working on DEEP EPIC. Time-line is dependent on EPIC camera deployment.

At the request of several customers we are making every effort to re-use DEEP RED. However there are always tradeoffs to this approach, most notably size. Functionality usually suffers, too -- whenever we try to fit a camera into a shell for which it was not designed there are compromises.

In either case, you can expect it to be a GATES in every way.

J-

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce a 3D Underwater Housing for Atom.

We have the privilege of collaborating with ET on this project. Stephen, Hector and their team are superb, and very supportive of the project.

Design inputs are coming from Bob Cranston, Howard Hall and other 3D cameramen around the world.

More specific information will follow soon.

Cheers

John

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Happy New Year,

GATES is already working on DEEP EPIC. Time-line is dependent on EPIC camera deployment.

At the request of several customers we are making every effort to re-use DEEP RED. However there are always tradeoffs to this approach, most notably size. Functionality usually suffers, too -- whenever we try to fit a camera into a shell for which it was not designed there are compromises.

In either case, you can expect it to be a GATES in every way.

J-

Yeah John,

not interested in anything else but an original designed Housing for the Epic

Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce a 3D Underwater Housing for Atom.

We have the privilege of collaborating with ET on this project. Stephen, Hector and their team are superb, and very supportive of the project.

Design inputs are coming from Bob Cranston, Howard Hall and other 3D cameramen around the world.

More specific information will follow soon.

Cheers

John

Please make sure to shoot me a PM or email John,

definitely interested, with 3 Atom rigs coming home, we will for sure get at list One Atom Underwater Housing

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I can't say I am the world's biggest fan of 3D, but I have to admit, 3D under water would be cool... :thumbup:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I can't say I am the world's biggest fan of 3D, but I have to admit, 3D under water would be cool... :thumbup:

No Terry, 3D under water its not cool.. its AMAZING!!

I just can't believe how much I enjoy seen the Imax series of Deep sea and Under the Sea 3D, even so only on a
55" flat screen, the images and effects and depth w/Active shutter glasses is mind Blowing, literally like looking
thru an Aquarium than, and some times the fish swim out in to the leaving room

 

[Pierre de Lespinois]

We have commissioned John Edelbrock of Gates to build us several 3D U/W Housings. We are in phase two of the engineering design, we are putting all the bells an whistles into this one including a 12" Underwater 3D monitor. Will be diving the rigs around June and prepping for the final tune and delivery.

Pierre de Lespinois

 

[Joshua Raven]

I'm curious to know how you are making out, Michael. How soon until the Aquavideo Epic PVC version is available for purchase?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Since we are at it, also interested in finding out any one planning on building one for the ATOM rig as well

That's physically impossible due to how underwater optics works. But, having said that, let's stay in touch, Ketch. There is a much better solution on the drawing board. :smile5:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

That's physically impossible due to how underwater optics works. But, having said that, let's stay in touch, Ketch. There is a much better solution on the drawing board. :smile5:

He he, actually I have been blessed by Gates on this few months ago... see quote below...
also flying out to Miami today to meet up with Michael Hastings to make the under water housing for EPIC M...

We are proud and Excited to announce that KETCH ROSSi STUDiOS will be receiving one of the first units of "DEEP ATOM" from GATES!!

Were State of the Art 3D goes under water in this nothing short of unreal collaboration of GATES and ELEMENT TECHNICA,
in bringing DEEP ATOM, "Digital Cinema 3D beam Splitter Underwater System" to be used with our RED EPIC cameras,
for some seriously Insane Underwater Motion capture

Specs and details will be posted soon

For now all that I can say is Thanks to the guys at Gates and Element Technica for this piece of Art.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I'm curious to know how you are making out, Michael. How soon until the Aquavideo Epic PVC version is available for purchase?

Joshua, I will be able to finalize pricing and specs within the next few days and will start taking orders/deposits next week.

PVC housings normally take about a week to build, aluminum two to four weeks - and we are normally on a one and a half to three week lead time to get into the system - so you add that for the total delivery time.

The lead time can be altered for special situations, but not on a regular basis. And since we need a camera on hand to do final fitting, delivery will be somewhat dependent on camera availability.

I have requested EpicM consideration, but haven't heard anything yet. I'm Sn 206 (shipped on earliest possible date) for stage and there are 45 numbers ahead on the informal list so I should have one before almost any EpicXers.

If you have an M and need one sooner we can work it out with you. I do this all the time - last week I did the initial build for a customer's Phantom Flex, got the camera Friday and worked all weekend and shipped the camera Fedex Monday to LA. Got the main body done and will get the camera back in a few weeks for a few days of final fitting.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

He he, actually I have been blessed by Gates on this few months ago... see quote below...
also flying out to Miami today to meet up with Michael Hastings to make the under water housing for EPIC M...

Hahaha, that's what I thought.:smilielol5:

You see, Ketch, you can not use flat port for wide angle lenses underwater. The distortion and chromatic aberrations are so big, you would not be able to resolve even 300 lines. What a waste of time and money.

About 90% of underwater filming is wide angle. The remaining 10% is macro. You do not use long lenses underwater because water does not transmit light very well. You just get closer to the subject using wide angle lenses.

The Gates housing would be nice as a splash housing for filming above water in harsh environments or for filming sea slugs (macro) - completely useless for most of underwater cinematography.

To overcome some of those problems, people use dome ports for wide angle lenses. These are big compromises using lenses designed for land use underwater as there are issues with image plane curvature (centre and edges focus at different distances) as well as there are severe problems in sharpness and CA away from the centre of the frame once you reach about 80° angle of view.

A few years ago I designed and made a dome port, which I called CinePort. This port is highly optimised to minimise these limitations. Dozens solutions were considered and ray traced, including achromatic doublets. It was manufactured at a military optical facility that makes optics for spy satelites with precision that you would be familiar with from your Master Primes, including special coatings that increase contrast with glass to water intersection.

The CinePort is by far the sharpest piece of underwater optics that I'm aware of and still barely resolves 4k and only slightly less on the edges.

It may come as surprise, but even 3D IMAX films produced by Howard Hall, do not resolve even half of that and, if you watch it carefully, drops to an embarrassing 200 lines per picture height or less towards the edges! That's less than standard definition.

What I referred to was that it is impossible to use dome ports for 3D because you can not place them close enough. And, the size of the dome matters: the larger the better as this affects the image plane curvature.

Before investing too much enthusiasm and money, why don't you shoot a chart with Atom 3D rig through a flat port! It takes a few hours, costs nothing and the results are priceless! Just visit a friend with a big glass aquarium, stick the rig right up the glass, put 14mm Master Prime and post the results here :smile5:

Pictured: CinePort and a comparison with SeaCam's Superdome - the world's best commerically available dome port.

You can regard CinePort as a highly optimised, very precise and specially coated version of SeaCam's Superdome.

Oh, BTW, the first picture is the CinePort in Titanium mount. It started as a 100lb block of Grade 4 Titanium...

 

[Michael Hastings]

The problem with u/w optics for stereo 3d is huge because if you use a dome port for wide angle 3d there are going to be some edge distortions but they will be the opposite on the left edge of the left camera and the right edge of the right camera. Actually they will be different everywhere but usually the distortion/ca is greater at the edges so more pronounced there. The main problem is that any add-on optic needs to be centered on the optical axis so even an Ivanoff or fathom style port will have similar issues.

Stunning macro 3d and relatively low res wide angle underwater is likely to be the situation for awhile. The only good news is that the distortions thru a dome or other corrective port will stay the same so it is possible it could be corrected fairly easily (although quite time consuming) via software in post. It will be easier to test that sort of thing with one of the new stereo cams from Sony/jvc etc.

Hahaha, that's what I thought.:smilielol5:

Alright, hold the sewer pipe references!:smile:

 

[Johnny Friday]

there are some very serious challenges as Pawel points out with a flatport and wide angle. AND, i'm not one in the know other than using a few systems and being involved in some post. BUT, what i do know is those that have built and shot digital u/w 3d have seen the limitations of flat ports and wide angles. And there are a lot of ideas and work being done to resolve said issues. I cannot speak specifically, but i know of two folks currently working on dome port solutions for the very reason flat port has its limitations. Certainly does not mean that it's obsolete, but there is a whole new level of cinematography at the dome port level that some are working on now. And it's hard to even talk about it unless you have shot and seen the results.

.....but we should keep the potty mouth talk to a minimum as Mike points out.