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New 10 bit 4:4:4 monitor under $ 8K

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Simon Valderrama

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Received yesterday an email from eCinema about their new 10 bit 4:4:4 monitor under at $ 8K, seems quite an accomplishment!

http://ecinemasystems.com/products/monitor.php?product=2

being in Italy i don't think i'll ever be able to ask for a test ride to evaluate in the field, anyone there will ever have a chance?
 
Where are you seeing the price?

Is the $8K price really for the PRO2310-ADV that handles 4:4:4 w/ 3D LUTs? Or is the under $8K just for the base 4:2:2 model?
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Where are you seeing the price?

Is the $8K price really for the PRO2310-ADV that handles 4:4:4 w/ 3D LUTs? Or is the under $8K just for the base 4:2:2 model?
Click to expand...

second this question
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Where are you seeing the price?

Is the $8K price really for the PRO2310-ADV that handles 4:4:4 w/ 3D LUTs? Or is the under $8K just for the base 4:2:2 model?
Click to expand...

sorry did not mention that.
i knew about this from an email from ecinema systems stating:

"eCinema introduces the PRO-2310 – a true 10-bit Grade 1 monitor under $8K US."

i asked a quote from them through the site and i hope they'll answer soon with an exact price (both 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 input versions)!
 
eCinema PRO-2310

eCinema PRO-2310

Hello everyone. The PRO-2310 in its base 4:2:2 configuration is $7995. The PRO-2310-ADV adds 4:4:4 and 3D LUT support and is $9995. We build these to order and lead time is currently around 6 weeks. Let me know if we can help!
 
Hi wesdonahue

1. What is your viewing angle performance as compare to CRT model or other LCD like Cinetal. Do we still suffer from luma shift ?
2. What is the contrast ratio of the monitor
3. How's the black performance as compare to other ecinema highend models, since you claimed this as color critical monitor, i assume performance will be the same over this black matter.

Regards
 
Sure the 4:4:4 option costs alot, wondering how much does it make sense to have a 10bit monitor with only 4:2:2 input ?
Sure number of colors displayed and used in processing are a different thing than color resolution, but still 10bit-4:2:2 feels quite being in middleground when you could be at the top.
 
some specs from eCinema reply:

Model: PRO-2310

Display: 22.5” 10-bit 120Hz LCD

Backlight: Wide-gamut cold cathode fluorescent

Contrast: 800:1 (typical)

Response: 12ms

Viewing Angle: 176 degrees
 
Valde said:
Sure the 4:4:4 option costs alot, wondering how much does it make sense to have a 10bit monitor with only 4:2:2 input ?
Sure number of colors displayed and used in processing are a different thing than color resolution, but still 10bit-4:2:2 feels quite being in middleground when you could be at the top.
Click to expand...

I believe you will find that the PRO-2310 is very aggressively priced among 10-bit 4:4:4 monitors. As for the value of 10-bit for 4:2:2, there are a number of 10-bit 4:2:2 codecs in use (Avid DNxHD 220x, AVC Intra 100, Apple ProRes 422, AJA uncompressed 10-bit) that are able to display full resolution color on a 10-bit 4:2:2 monitor and would not really benefit from 4:4:4 sampling. Thus, 4:4:4 and 3D LUT support is an option for those workflows that support full 4:4:4 color sampling.
 
Rivai said:
Hi wesdonahue

1. What is your viewing angle performance as compare to CRT model or other LCD like Cinetal. Do we still suffer from luma shift ?
2. What is the contrast ratio of the monitor
3. How's the black performance as compare to other ecinema highend models, since you claimed this as color critical monitor, i assume performance will be the same over this black matter.

Regards
Click to expand...

Viewing angle is 176 degrees, Contrast ratio is 800:1 (typical), response time is 12ms. Black level for the PRO-2310 is as good or better than every other LCD on the market with the notable exception of our own DPX-2310, which yields a 15,000:1 simultaneous contrast ratio for true reference black.
 
Thanks, i would want to see it. Hope to see a demo, it sounds great.
 
BTW, i hope the LCD can at least yield 1000:1 contrast ratio
 
It looks like the contrast ration is only about 800:1... how come? is that good enough? for comparison dreamcolor claims 1000:1....
 
Can you describe your alternate to black frame insertion? I recently spent some time testing black frame insertion on a 120 Hz display. With the exception of the large light output loss, I liked the results. It had other modes as well. One would produce brighter and dimmer frames. It had three levels. The results of that mode were poor. It introduced this odd color fringing problem.
 
Wil Klassen said:
Second NormLi's question for the most part, if price weren't an issue, would it be worth it? Anyone have experience with eCinema products to know if they not only mean what they say in terms of color gamut but also if it's a solid product?
Click to expand...

I use an eCinema monitor for Red.
When we used it for Sony F900 some liked it, some didn't.
With the Red it looks very good to my eyes.
One things that I found about monitoring a video signal when shooting is that it is so subjective that everyone sees it differently. If I switch monitors what looked good to them suddenly they are not so sure if it was good.
That's the advantage of RAW.
 
jieves said:
It looks like the contrast ration is only about 800:1... how come? is that good enough? for comparison dreamcolor claims 1000:1....
Click to expand...

yes, that's a quite disappointing spec.
the new apple led monitor is 900:1 for instance.
Maybe it's related to the display being 10bit, as probably today it's already cheap making a 900:1 8bit non color critical display, as the Apple one, but still pricey a 10bit color critical display with HDSDI inputs and 10bit internal processing.
anyway i too expected a 1000:1 sontrast ratio from this price range ...
 
Valde said:
yes, that's a quite disappointing spec.
the new apple led monitor is 900:1 for instance.
Maybe it's related to the display being 10bit, as probably today it's already cheap making a 900:1 8bit non color critical display, as the Apple one, but still pricey a 10bit color critical display with HDSDI inputs and 10bit internal processing.
anyway i too expected a 1000:1 sontrast ratio from this price range ...
Click to expand...

Please keep in mind that manufacturers make a lot of claims regarding contrast, color gamut, you name it. What we try to do is provide accurate, real world specifications that reflect typical usage.

For example, contrast ratio can be measured sequentially or simultaneously. Here's some info from a previous post by Martin:

Contrast ratio: A measurement that describes the relative luminance between the black and white points of a monitor (or projector, etc.). Saying that the contrast ratio is 10 means that black is ten times darker than whatever white happens to be set to.

The ratio can be different depending on how the measurements are taken.

Sequential contrast:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1- Calibrate the monitor as it will be used.
2- Send a full frame of white to the monitor
3- Measure white
4- Now switch to black
5- Measure black
6- Contrast ratio = white luminance / black luminance

Typical LCD: 500~1,000 to 1

Simultaneous contrast:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1- Calibrate the monitor as it will be used.
2- Send a black and white checkerboard pattern to monitor
3- Measure white square near center
4- Measure black square near center
5- Contrast ratio = white luminance / black luminance

Typical LCD: 500~1,000 to 1

The intent behind Sequential contrast is to determine the absolute best performance for a fully calibrated monitor in proper operating conditions. It is relevant for such things as titles over black or very dark scenery, where deep dark blacks are a necessity.
Simultaneous contrast refers to the manner in which the colors of two different objects affect each other. The effect is more noticeable when shared between objects of complementary color. Therefore typical simultaneous contrast is there to give you an idea of how well the contrast performance holds-up as varied image content occupies different portions of the screen.

The 800:1 contrast figure for the PRO-2310 represents typical simultaneous contrast ratio and will vary based on image content.
Having stated all of this, the most important consideration when choosing a monitor is SEEING IS BELIEVING! Specs are fine to get an idea of how a monitor might perform. But an idea is all you should get. In the end, you must evaluate monitors first-hand with content you are familiar with to determine its image characteristics and overall performance.
 
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