EPIC STAGE Clarification and update

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Anyone else tempted to get the MX upgrade for their R1 and wait until Epic FF35 ships and then upgrade? As opposed to going to Stage 3?

As much as I want Scarlet FF35 and Epic 645, I'm not tempted to wait at all. Who knows how much longer the wait for those cameras will be. Having a new DSMC system now along with the bonus of the included modules for EPIC-X is far more advantageous than waiting for the future. Because, let's be realistic here, there's always going to be something better coming along.

Most of the RED OWNERS do have a REDFLASH MODULE. I believe, we are not allowed to remove the REDFLASH MODULE by ourself.

What will RED do with the REDFLASH MODULE of the Trade-in-Cameras? Do you send it back?

You can remove the CF module. Many of us with the original CF modules swapped out the module ourselves for a new one when we bought 16GB cards.

I don't know if RED will want it back with the camera or not. I guess that will come along with the Stage-3 details. I don't know what you would do with it if you kept it. Maybe sell it to someone else so they can have a spare...?

 

[Robert Frank]

Having a new DSMC system now along with the bonus of the included modules for EPIC-X is far more advantageous than waiting for the future. Because, let's be realistic here, there's always going to be something better coming along.

I happen to agree about the Epic-X value being excellent. I'm still amazed that this program exists.

But I can see how for someone who invested very heavily in R1 accessories, it might make sense to upgrade the sensor and continue to benefit from their R1 system. An upgraded R1-MX would be close in image quality to Epic, although not in features and other specifications. By the time the Epic FF35 ships their R1 would have been earning income all that time.

The reality for me though, Stage 3 Epic-X. I can't wait any longer. The modularity, frame rates, 5K resolution etc. are too much too resist. :001_wub::laugh:

 

[Michael Hastings]

You can remove the CF module. Many of us with the original CF modules swapped out the module ourselves for a new one when we bought 16GB cards.

I don't know if RED will want it back with the camera or not. I guess that will come along with the Stage-3 details. I don't know what you would do with it if you kept it. Maybe sell it to someone else so they can have a spare...?

I'd kind of like to remove it and keep it at least to sell to some new buyer or as a repair replacement. I paid 500 separately for it and really didn't want it - it was one of my minor (emphasis on minor) annoyances with my RED1 order. As you can imagine an 8 gig card isn't much for underwater so I only ordered the RED drives (this is december 07). They told me the drives were backordered for several weeks or more so I ordered 3 cards and the module ($1700?). My RED shipped and just a few days later my hard drives shipped - but wasn't allowed to return the cards/module. Also didn't get the cover plate.

Anyway, its just one of those things - "GDit! I paid for it - I wanna get some resale out of it" even if its $100 on ebay as a spare.

snip... By the time the Epic FF35 ships their R1 would have been earning income all that time.

...

But if you do epic-x your epic-x will be working all that time too ...(plus the accessories benefit) and once epic-x ships it is going to be harder to work a Red1.

 

[Mark Pugh]

As much as I want Scarlet FF35 and Epic 645, I'm not tempted to wait at all. Who knows how much longer the wait for those cameras will be.

Some of us own more than one R1,
so it's worth a thought to keep a camera for FF35 upgrade if it may indeed come in the nearish future.

BTW, Red's website now has no mention anywhere, that I can see, of FF35, 645 or 617, except for at red.com/press. No mention even there of the 645, though.

 

[Peter Matthes]

Nothing lasts forever though..

Any idea on when the reservation period will begin for those participating in Stage 3 and Stage 3.5?

 

[Elsie N]

You can trade in an unexecuted RED ONE for a FF35 Monstro Epic (Brain only) for full R1 value.

Nothing lasts forever though.. You will likely need to decide which way your plan on going when we are about to enter stage 3.

Thanks for clarification... This is good news... for me at least. If all goes well, I can enter Stage 3 and hope for a Monstro sensor upgrade at some later date. (I doubt that even you know if that will be possible since the sensor ostensibly hasn't been built yet and what kind of other hardware changes may need to be made?)

If things don't go as planned, I at least have the fall back option of trading in for the Monstro Epic Brain. It's all good.

 

[Chris Zamoscianyk]

Hi All,
I'm a little confused and am having a hard time getting an straight answer. I'm not a current red owner but would like to purchase an epic. What is the fastest way to make that happen? I'm ready to get the camera asap.
Thanks.

 

[Curran Giddens]

I believe, we are not allowed to remove the REDFLASH MODULE by ourself.

Last year Red sent out user-replaceable CF module upgrades for the 16GB cards. We were allowed to remove the side panel then...


EDIT: Ooops. Didn't see Jeff's post. already been said.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi All,
I'm a little confused and am having a hard time getting an straight answer. I'm not a current red owner but would like to purchase an epic. What is the fastest way to make that happen? I'm ready to get the camera asap.
Thanks.

After all current RED One customers are taken care of, RED should open up orders for new cameras. I guess you would try to be first in line when that happens.

The only way to get it faster would be to pick up a RED One now and work with the current owner to also buy the Epic-X that should be tied to that camera.

 

[Dan Blanchett]

Jarred, I think my question got lost in the shuffle. When will Stage 2 people be able to also purchase Scarlet cameras? I am getting the Epic but plan to get a Scarlet (possibly both S35 and 2/3 versions) as well.

And will there be quantity limits on the 2/3 Scarlets?

Thanks!

EDIT: Just noticed JimHare's post. Jim, I hope you are right!

 

[Daniel Valle]

I hope RED puts a limit of something like two Scarlets per sale, or else rental houses everywhere will surely buy most of the first waves of cameras and then charge a fortune during the period it'll take for most people to be able to get one.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Jarred, I think my question got lost in the shuffle. When will Stage 2 people be able to also purchase Scarlet cameras? I am getting the Epic but plan to get a Scarlet (possibly both S35 and 2/3 versions) as well.

And will there be quantity limits on the 2/3 Scarlets?

Thanks!

EDIT: Just noticed JimHare's post. Jim, I hope you are right!

As promised...


...

SCARLET CREDIT: (NEW R1 ELIGIBILITY ENDED)

If you do not execute your trade-in option in Stages 1-3.5, you are still eligible to keep your RED ONE and and receive a one-time credit of 12% on a Single SCARLET FULL SYSTEM.
Cameras only eligible if invoiced by RED or having completed the official RED ownership transfer process ON OR BEFORE May 22, 2010.
Once this credit is selected, the corresponding RED ONE will be marked at executed. "Executed" means not eligible for any other trade-in offers/credits.
Cameras with voided warranties are not eligible for ANY trade-in offers/credits.

I think this addresses your question (from the front of this thread). My interpretation would be that you get to choose between Epic and Scarlet but can't get priority on both. (Also addressed directly in Joseph's "10 Questions..." (quoted below)

" What priority will RED One owners have over those who have been saving all funding for Scarlets/tons of modules?

RED ONE owners who have not executed their cameras for Stages 1-3 of the EPIC program will have a short window of priority on Scarlet packages."

 

[Dan Blanchett]

It's not a direct answer, but it's the best I'll get I guess. So I assume that once you execute Stage 1, 2 or 3 for an Epic, buying additional cameras (such as Scarlets) will be "first come first serve" and limited to "quantities in stock" after R1 owners who didn't get an Epic have their limited window of priority.

 

[PETER JOHN KNOX]

I have just bought a new R1 and had the ownership changed over for a 2nd hand R1 in order to jump up the list for the M-X sensor upgrade. We got this done before the 22nd May so good news that our cameras still hold the trade in value.

This begs the question of new clients.
As they wont have the opportunity to get an Epic till all previous R1 owners have had the chance to upgrade will neither want a new R1 as this will be somewhat 2nd rate compared to the Epic for top end commercials and has no trade in value.
This creates a possible time period when new clients who cant get hold of the Epic and dont want a new R1 will look towards the Alexa as they would not have to wait till over 7000 previous owners have the chance to upgrade to Epic.
It therefore appears to me that RED are potentially helping in the sales of the Alexa to new clients.

 

[MichaelHalsell]

I have just bought a new R1 and had the ownership changed over for a 2nd hand R1 in order to jump up the list for the M-X sensor upgrade. We got this done before the 22nd May so good news that our cameras still hold the trade in value.

This begs the question of new clients.
As they wont have the opportunity to get an Epic till all previous R1 owners have had the chance to upgrade will neither want a new R1 as this will be somewhat 2nd rate compared to the Epic for top end commercials and has no trade in value.
This creates a possible time period when new clients who cant get hold of the Epic and dont want a new R1 will look towards the Alexa as they would not have to wait till over 7000 previous owners have the chance to upgrade to Epic.
It therefore appears to me that RED are potentially helping in the sales of the Alexa to new clients.

Point taken. But total conjecture. RED is absolutely aware of the rollout schedule and strategy for meeting the market demand for new product. No doubt if a business can afford to have an Alexa, they equally can afford to purchase an EPIC (when available) to sit on the shelf right next to the Alexa and have the luxury to choose the right tool for the job. The M-X enable bodies are flying thru the system right now, so technically there is plenty product to satisfy the market as it stands.

 

[Jarred Land]

It's not a direct answer, but it's the best I'll get I guess. So I assume that once you execute Stage 1, 2 or 3 for an Epic, buying additional cameras (such as Scarlets) will be "first come first serve" and limited to "quantities in stock" after R1 owners who didn't get an Epic have their limited window of priority.

thats pretty safe to assume.

 

[Elsie N]

thats pretty safe to assume.

Love these (semi) ambiguous answers... that means there is room for adjustment as needed.

('Cause if you leave yourself no wiggle room, you've put yourself in a straightjacket)

 

[David Battistella]

I think after this wave there will be a split.

Epic owners who also own MX RED ONE and Scarlets
Scarlet owners.


David

 

[Terry VerHaar]

...

This creates a possible time period when new clients who cant get hold of the Epic and dont want a new R1 will look towards the Alexa as they would not have to wait till over 7000 previous owners have the chance to upgrade to Epic.
It therefore appears to me that RED are potentially helping in the sales of the Alexa to new clients.

But one can't assume that Arri will be able to immediately meet demand for Alexa, either. They have some of the same challenges as RED in producing cameras. Potential buyers in either case (Alexa or Epic) may be stuck waiting for awhile.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

This begs the question of new clients.
As they wont have the opportunity to get an Epic till all previous R1 owners have had the chance to upgrade will neither want a new R1 as this will be somewhat 2nd rate compared to the Epic for top end commercials and has no trade in value.
This creates a possible time period when new clients who cant get hold of the Epic and dont want a new R1 will look towards the Alexa as they would not have to wait till over 7000 previous owners have the chance to upgrade to Epic.
It therefore appears to me that RED are potentially helping in the sales of the Alexa to new clients.

Doubt it. If someone wants an epic, they will buy and epic. If they want an alexa they will buy that. If epics are out and they want to use it they will rent.

Also don't forget in the limited comparative testing done so far, it was Alexa versus an MX'ed R1 with, depending on who you are, a hung jury as to a definitive winner. IE Red already has a camera on the market that Alexa has to duke it out against.