So is RED going to Design a CAR anytime soon??? solar powered of course.

[BigLu]

I know its off topic a little bit.
But HAS RED talked about designing a Solar Powered CAR?
Or something that does not run on BLOOD.

WTF why not no one thought they would make a 4K camera so fast complete and working under 30k.


If you are I have my deposit ready.

 

[g3nov3s3]

I want some of that stuff you're smoking....

 

[Andrew Walker]

I know its off topic a little bit.
But HAS RED talked about designing a Solar Powered CAR?
Or something that does not run on BLOOD.

WTF why not no one thought they would make a 4K camera so fast complete and working under 30k.


If you are I have my deposit ready.

I don't know what your talking about. My car runs on body parts...an arm here a legs there.

 

[Clint Johnson]

I know its off topic a little bit.
But HAS RED talked about designing a Solar Powered CAR?
Or something that does not run on BLOOD.

WTF why not no one thought they would make a 4K camera so fast complete and working under 30k.


If you are I have my deposit ready.

There is not enough energy in sunlight to move anything more than an aerodynamically enclosed tricycle. The equivalent of the most anemic gas sipper would need tens of square meters of solar panels even at 100% efficiency.

 

[Joseph Ward]

What about a Red Drag Race Car?

 

[Petr Dvorak]

Dude Jim did long time development on the other side - gas guzzlers - drasgters he he :clown2:

 

[Tom Lowe]

I would buy one.

As soon as an all-electric Jeep or 4x4 hits the market I will buy one. I don't care if it costs a lot more. I'd rather pay the loot up front then continually getting raped at the gas pump every week.

 

[James T Mather]

wow - what gas station are you going to? I just get a wax at mine.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Hehe.

 

[Dominic Cochran]

There is not enough energy in sunlight

Are you 100% sure this is a sunlight issue and not a cell development issue? I don't know a lot about solar tech but last time I checked our whole planet pretty much runs on sunlight.

 

[jimhare]

I'd buy one. Or at least a fully electric car with hybrid petrol used only for longer trips when you need to go more than 80 miles.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Clint is right. There just isn't enough energy in sunlight to directly power a real car, or at least not in relation to the surface areas needed. OTOH, voltaic cells make perfect sense for the outer skin of an electric vehicle. Even if they can input 5 to 10 percent of the energy needed, that takes a load off and increases mileage. There could be huge advantages to this in commuter vehicles in situations of high density traffic - stop n' go driving, etc. Besides, wouldn't it be cool if you could drive your car to work and that may drain your charge by 25%, but the car would be fully charged again when you leave to drive home?

Solar cells right now are getting very efficient. There are many cell products for residential and commercial construction where the cell panels are actually thin sheets that incorporate directly with asphalt and composite roofing surfaces or others that are individual tiles that blend seamlessly with concrete roof tiles. Costs are coming down and it's possible in many cases for these panels to generate enough electricity that they would pay off their installation cost within 3 to 5 years and after that will help reduce the homeowner's utility bill. All the while, reducing their load on the power grid.

I think we're going to start seeing many products like this not only become standard over the next few years, but actually required for new construction.

 

[Petr Dvorak]

nanotech will help alot - and there is some development that solar panels can create electricity even at night :wink:

 

[Dominic Cochran]

Solar cells right now are getting very efficient. There are many cell products for residential and commercial construction where the cell panels are actually thin sheets that incorporate directly with asphalt and composite roofing surfaces or others that are individual tiles that blend seamlessly with concrete roof tiles. Costs are coming down and it's possible in many cases for these panels to generate enough electricity that they would pay off their installation cost within 3 to 5 years and after that will help reduce the homeowner's utility bill. All the while, reducing their load on the power grid.

I think we're going to start seeing many products like this not only become standard over the next few years, but actually required for new construction.

Still looks like a tech problem to me, not a sun problem. Unless you see the progress reflected in the first sentence of yours I quoted stopping for some reason. History tells me that's extremely likely.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well the problem is that there is only so much energy in sunlight that hits the earth's surface in a square meter in a certain amount of time (or whatever measurement you wish to use). I don't recall how many Joules/s/m^2 it is off the top of my head. So no matter how technically advanced solar voltaic cells become, there is no way to transfer more energy into a system (like a solar powered car) than what they receive via sunlight hitting their surface. Right now, good voltaics are 82-85% efficient. That number will increase with better materials and design, but a true 100% voltaic cell would practically defy the laws of physics and energy transfer. This is why many of the larger solar farms use large mirrors and / or lenses to concentrate more sunlight onto banks of solar panels. I think current solar cells could get a 20 to 30 % boost in power input and output of the current flat surface designs were augmented with a way to re-focus the incoming sunlight. I've seen one concept like this where the surface of the solar panel looked as if it was covered with glass beads about 1/2" in diameter that acted like little magnifying glasses. The company showing this was claiming a 15% boost in power I/O over their standard flat-surface panel. They were claiming something like 93% efficiency. But ultimately, a solar panel can not take in any more energy than what is able to strike its surface.

Obviously, to go beyond 100% of the energy striking it's surface would require some sort of reactive panel and there is research happening in that area too with some test concepts that have popped up over the years. These are voltaic cells that employ various types of organic films or chemical combinations that when stimulated by sunlight or the right type of energy, they react and produce much greater energy output. The problem with this is they don't last very long. Most concepts literally only last minutes to a few hours before the reactive substances have used themselves up in their reactions.

So on that note, it can be a tech problem... But sunlight alone isn't going to produce enough power on the spot to move anything but the lightest cars -- as has been done thus far. Sunlight isn't going to power the family station wagon with 6 people and 500lbs of luggage in the back.

But if a hybrid solution of sunlight and a reactive power generation method could theoretically get it done.

I see solar on vehicles as a supplementary power system or part of the whole, not the primary source of power. Solar would be great for continuous recharging of electric vehicles or as the power-input necessary to drive certain types of fuel cells.

 

[Dominic Cochran]

I think current solar cells could get a 20 to 30 % boost in power input and output of the current flat surface designs were augmented with a way to re-focus the incoming sunlight. I've seen one concept like this where the surface of the solar panel looked as if it was covered with glass beads about 1/2" in diameter that acted like little magnifying glasses. The company showing this was claiming a 15% boost in power I/O over their standard flat-surface panel. They were claiming something like 93% efficiency. But ultimately, a solar panel can not take in any more energy than what is able to strike its surface.

Obviously, to go beyond 100% of the energy striking it's surface would require some sort of reactive panel and there is research happening in that area too with some test concepts that have popped up over the years. These are voltaic cells that employ various types of organic films or chemical combinations that when stimulated by sunlight or the right type of energy, they react and produce much greater energy output. The problem with this is they don't last very long. Most concepts literally only last minutes to a few hours before the reactive substances have used themselves up in their reactions.

Sounds like a great first step would be getting these ultra-efficient focusing panels in homes to charge (better)batteries in the vehicles.

And yes, I've read about the reactive, organic panels you mentioned and that's absolutely what I was thinking of when I said this is theoretically possible. Don't forget that this research at it's most efficient should be running concurrently with developments in lighter construction materials, road-surface advances, and battery development as well. I'm just saying it should be possible with no timeframe speculations as of yet.

 

[Matthew Greene]

Black Silicon tech will probably change the game... of course the all powerful oil companies and goverments don't really want solar powered cars taking over their business. In the meanwhile Hybrid technology is the compromise everyone seems happy with.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Black Silicon tech will probably change the game... of course the all powerful oil companies and goverments don't really want solar powered cars taking over their business. In the meanwhile Hybrid technology is the compromise everyone seems happy with.

Black Silicon may play a role, as could other similar developments. But as for producing much more power output needed from solar cells... That's not what it does. The so called "Black Silicon" is a silicon composite (they are not releasing further details until patent issues are resolved). In situations where it is being used for sensitivity response, like image sensors, it shows promise. It can produce readings that are 5 to 6 times more sensitive than conventional silicon composites used in that sort of application. Or capable of indicating a state of change with lower amounts of stimulation. Voltaic cells are about energy conversion and energy transfer. How to get electromagnetic energy in the form of visible light, low and near UV and IR and heat converted into electric current. Black Silicon or similar composites may help to increase further sensitivity and efficiency of voltaic panels, further approaching that holy grail of 100% energy conversion.

Right now, voltaics are about 84% efficient on the good end. Most of the remaining 16% is lost as deflected heat, some is lost within the internal transition to electric current. I see better materials reducing the internal conversions. Better materials will retain more of the solar energy and emit less heat. Most good solar cells these days will produce power on overcast days and at night. Moonlight and IR still hit the panels at night, other factors come into play too like ambient temperature.

The all powerful oil companies want this too... Remember, most "oil companies" are actually "energy companies" and they have their fingers in this pot too.. As well as fuel cells, geothermal, hydro-electric, hydrogen, etc..

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

The all powerful oil companies want this too... Remember, most "oil companies" are actually "energy companies" and they have their fingers in this pot too.. As well as fuel cells, geothermal, hydro-electric, hydrogen, etc..

That's a highly optimistic characterization, Jeff. The oil companies are only marginally invested in these technologies, at best -- more so than in the past, but the totality of their investment in alternatives to oil represent less than a drop in the bucket.

The reason that GM is in the toilet is their marriage to the oil companies that shitcanned any of their efforts at innovation. GM's EV-1 electric car could have been the salvation of this company and a road map for future innovations. Instead, they were all destroyed. The same can be said of all major car companies (Honda is the possible exception, they have actually pushed their hydrogen fuel cell technology forward, slowly, granted), including Toyota which killed their electric RAV and cratered to a bigger car re-design on the Prius over the increaded fuel efficiency of their 2nd gen hybrid technology.

The leaders in alternative energy have been smaller, nimbler companies with no vested interest in oil. They are leading. The oil companies are only now following along in the wake of the public's disgust at their willingness to propogate America's oil addiction and and sell the country off to foreign oil interests, piece by piece.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Yes Red Can!!!

Yes Red Can!!!

Well the problem is that there is only so much energy in sunlight that hits the earth's surface in a square meter in a certain amount of time (or whatever measurement you wish to use).

RED would prove different : Jim hires Greame to find a compression scheme where they could have better use for solar light!

Do you think prority for early RED adopters would also apply for the RED CAR?

I would like to by one now as my car has allready 233000km and eats 10liters/100km... I'm in a hurry... Hope Brent will give us some delivery update!!!

:clown2:

Patrick