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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic skintones.

Björn Benckert

Björn Benckert

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Simon Rudholm said:
Word. So hows your epic treating you Björn?
have you tried lifting the epic with the hexacopter yet?

see you.
simon
Click to expand...

All good so far it will be on the milo all day tomorrow and we shot fake snow/blue screen yesterday. Perfect keys even though the blue screen had a poor layer of blue ontop of white and the paint was high gloss...

Love the camera from start, and loved it even more when we got the red rocket 4t raid. Now I just wait for 50i playback/output to make it work fully with our milo stuff. video IO etc.
 
Sorry i find the comparison a little bit misleading. That is obviously not coverage of the Alexa sensor. Alexa prores is the result of scale down of higher version since they choose HD 1080 as their mastering and delivery resolution. But the FOV is way higher that what you've posted (you are aware of it since you listed Alexa sensor size). It's better for you to discard Alexa words and use HD 1080 instead. The resolution doesnt dictate the coverage area, in RED yes, but not in Alexa...shooting highspeed in Alexa doesnt crop the picture like in RED

I know we all love RED here..but let's just put it back on correct perspective. Sorry to have a little bit of disagreement with the picture..

The picture is awesome nevertheless !

Rivai
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
It is pretty clear he is referring to resolution, Rivai.
Click to expand...

In that case, maybe update the pic with Alexa's 3.5K RAW capture then?

That's a 4.67MP image using the same accounting as is used for Red (and the Red One is still twice as high, and the Epic 3x as high).
 
RivaiC said:
Sorry i find the comparison a little bit misleading. That is obviously not coverage of the Alexa sensor. Alexa prores is the result of scale down of higher version since they choose HD 1080 as their mastering and delivery resolution. But the FOV is way higher that what you've posted (you are aware of it since you listed Alexa sensor size). It's better for you to discard Alexa words and use HD 1080 instead. The resolution doesnt dictate the coverage area, in RED yes, but not in Alexa...shooting highspeed in Alexa doesnt crop the picture like in RED

I know we all love RED here..but let's just put it back on correct perspective. Sorry to have a little bit of disagreement with the picture..

The picture is awesome nevertheless !

Rivai
Click to expand...

My post was a Joke, still I find it quite correct.

You are saying that alexa is not cropping the image when shooting High speed... Pardon me but I did not know that alexa could shoot high speed... or are you talking about the 60fps that it can output?If so it takes a bit more fps than that before the epic starts to crop...
Also I was not comparing the FOV's or size of sensor but to me it's very clear that the image detail of the two cameras can not be compared. Im have been sitting in my flame with ALEXA material in full res in front of my nose since that camera came out and it does look good. But now when I fiddle around with footage from our epic in full 5k it's very clear and quite amazing since I find that the pixels are of the same quality and they are 6 times as many... That makes big difference any one in post would tell you the same. Off course I see also the compression as a bit stupid. The only other fair comparison would be to up scale an alexa frame to 5k size and do the comparison there and trust me, alexa is then far behind of the quality of the Epic.

To pull the joke a bit further, I know I wrote shoulder. And I will stand by it... since it's in all aspects true to say that alexa only gets "part of the shoulder" since that camera only reach to the shoulder of the Epic HDR color range the rest is as they say cropped out of range. Or where you referring to the shoulder of the talent in the picture :)

Here is another fun test I did... Showing the alexa as good / bad as 5D... this is of course not at all true. But after post in PAL they do look identical... So tests can be sliced all kinds of ways I guess. :yesnod:
 
RivaiC said:
The resolution doesnt dictate the coverage area, in RED yes, but not in Alexa...shooting highspeed in Alexa doesnt crop the picture like in RED.
Click to expand...

Epic shoots up to 120fps at 5k. Alexa can't do 300fps like Epic can in windowed mode.
 
Erich Ocean said:
In that case, maybe update the pic with Alexa's 3.5K RAW capture then?

That's a 4.67MP image using the same accounting as is used for Red (and the Red One is still twice as high, and the Epic 3x as high).
Click to expand...

It's 2.8k max record though, Erich. The rest is for it's look-around.

But I'd much prefer to see an actual Alexa image in there rather than a box representing it, not least as a 1080p is giving it an advantage over it's actual measured resolution...

Graeme
 
If I shot with an Alexa? Well quite a few times actually but then again I only go shooting once in a while the rest of my time I do post and I think that I know a bit about pixels. I have had quite a few quite large machines to bake pixels in trough the years... I have owned and also operated the following machines: Kodak Genesis 4k Scanner, Domino 3k scanner, Domino 3K workstation, Domino 3K film printer, infernos, flames, flints, fire, smoke and most other picture software around even stupid stuff like Cineon. So yes I think Im able to say that I have the knowledge to judging a pixel when I see one... And in regards to the alexa we have most of the material that we work with shot on that camera. So yes I have seen/graded and done a wast amount of flame compositing on alexa material. But last time I shot with the alexa was as about 10 days ago. Then doing milo work, see pic. Do not take me wrong the Alexa has amazing balance in the skin tones etc. But I do think the epic behaves quite equal in those regards... then if you need to zoom into the frames to make the comps in post or such then you will clearly see the difference, that the alexa stock is missing 5/6 of the image resolution compared to the epic and again if you shoot EPIC HDR then I find that the epic has also a far greater range.

... Not to mention the benefits for having a camera as small as the epic... for us doing moco, the weight of the camera is extremely relevant to gitter i.e vibrations. epic body is 2.3kg the alexa comes in around 7kg... the weight of the camera sets the need of sturdiness of the rig... the milo is built for up to 45kg cameras there for it looks like a tank. Making the same rig for 10Kg camera would probably even be something that 2 people could carry.
 

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Björn Benckert said:
My post was a Joke, still I find it quite correct.

You are saying that alexa is not cropping the image when shooting High speed... Pardon me but I did not know that alexa could shoot high speed... or are you talking about the 60fps that it can output?If so it takes a bit more fps than that before the epic starts to crop...
Also I was not comparing the FOV's or size of sensor but to me it's very clear that the image detail of the two cameras can not be compared. Im have been sitting in my flame with ALEXA material in full res in front of my nose since that camera came out and it does look good. But now when I fiddle around with footage from our epic in full 5k it's very clear and quite amazing since I find that the pixels are of the same quality and they are 6 times as many... That makes big difference any one in post would tell you the same. Off course I see also the compression as a bit stupid. The only other fair comparison would be to up scale an alexa frame to 5k size and do the comparison there and trust me, alexa is then far behind of the quality of the Epic.



To pull the joke a bit further, I know I wrote shoulder. And I will stand by it... since it's in all aspects true to say that alexa only gets "part of the shoulder" since that camera only reach to the shoulder of the Epic HDR color range the rest is as they say cropped out of range. Or where you referring to the shoulder of the talent in the picture :)

Here is another fun test I did... Showing the alexa as good / bad as 5D... this is of course not at all true. But after post in PAL they do look identical... So tests can be sliced all kinds of ways I guess. :yesnod:
Click to expand...

New Alexa shoots 120fps and doesnt crop (EPIC too i know, but old R1 crop above 30fps). If you are comparing resolution, you should compare to ARRI RAW, the reason why i said the picture is misleading. You should capture the same thing in Alexa and do a comparison side by side. Hey look, alexa doesnt resolve details as good as EPIC, then i can agree with your picture. But by not looking at your explanation, the picture alone tells me you are comparing coverage of the sensor. Because you said Alexa only covers the shoulder...it sounds to me more towards FOV rather than resolution comparison. If you put an Alexa camera side by side with EPIC, of course you know that Alexa covers a lot more than that. To compare resolution, you will need to do 1:1 zoom on both camera and it will be a fair resolution comparison.

PS. Yes..Alexa is way behind EPIC in every way Resolution, Highspeed, ease of use, post support etc :) That's the good news

My 2 cents

Rivai
 
Thank goodness... it was a joke, I was going to say, you can make skin tones what ever colour you want... :))))

cold.jpg
 
Graeme Nattress said:
It's 2.8k max record though, Erich. The rest is for it's look-around.
Click to expand...

Yup, which is why I said 4.67MP, based on the 2880x1620 recordable RAW area of the sensor. :-)

Epic (and Red One) are the king for green screen work, hands down.
 
How is that 25P instead of PsF working to synch with the Milo for you? Last time I tried we had the Milo go into earthquake jitters quite a bit because of it. At least when you need frame accurate repeatability. Any good workarounds yet?
But your point is clear and valid. When shooting material for severe post manipulation resolution does matter quite a bit.
 
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