EPIC production...

[Harcharan Singh]

As you all have witnessed first hand, we have been burned many, many, many, many, many times.. many times.. many many times trying to guess when cameras will ship before we actually have them in boxes ready to go out the door.

.....EPIC times ahead

 

[Carlo Rho]

Price list

Price list

Cam... all we can do is:

1. Post as we go along and change as necessary...

2. Don't post anything until we are done.

We have chosen #1. And it still gets us in trouble with frustrated customers. No matter how generous we try to be (don't know of any other trade options existed in this industry before ours)... we can't make everyone happy, apparently.

We have been posting our best updates... but let's consider just a few things that need reminding.

We are still pretty new at this.

We changed from having an Asian 3rd party manufacture these to doing it ourselves in the US.

We have added HDRx™™™ since you put down your deposit... as well as a few other cookies.

The camera needed to change in dimensions.

No camera company, even with 70 years of history, has ever attempted such a leap in capability and form factor... and price.

We have made "Obsolescence Obsolete" real in an ever changing world.

Truth is... most everyone who has tried even a little... has made back their investment in a RED ONE. Any Stage is more than fair. Wildly more than fair if you compare it to anything. Ever.

The only penalty for being a RED customer is time. And if you have a RED ONE, the penalty is not so painful. Fincher is shooting (happily) Girl With the Dragon Tattoo on RED ONE MX while he waits for an EPIC. If he is OK...

Jim

I'm really happy with all this, I think Stage 2 is the best revenue possible for REDone costumers and I'll wait untill we'll have to but...
What I really would like to see tomorrow is the price list, the final composition of Stage-2 package and the ability for our Bob Squad rep. to send ProForma Invoice about Epic.
I'll have to go to my bank to be financed and it takes time (at least a month in Spain) and I can't start without an order/proforma from RED.
In '08 I lost 2 months with the our REDones ready to ship and my bank unready to pay, this time will be quicker 'cause I have a 3 years old healty company and not a new one but I would really like to avoid to lose time after my Epic-Xs will be ready to ship!
I would like to prepare my Epic order tomorrow! Jim don't you like to have exact accessories figures before start shipping?

 

[Brigham Edgar]

Accessories...? You mentioned a few in a previous post, and please please be available to ship with cameras...but what about the RedVolt batteries and there module? Don't really want to slab on a RedBrick if i don't have too...

 

[Häakon]

Accessories...? You mentioned a few in a previous post, and please please be available to ship with cameras...but what about the RedVolt batteries and there module? Don't really want to slab on a RedBrick if i don't have too...

It was my understanding that the "M" cameras were more of the "beta" camera this go around and not all features and accessories would be available for those who chose this route. I certainly hope that basic accessories like batteries will be available for the shipping version of the Epic-X.

 

[Lee Saxon]

As you all have witnessed first hand, we have been burned many, many, many, many, many times.. many times.. many many times

I kinda wanna give you a hug

 

[Emanuel A.]

We are in the process of moving EPIC production from Stage 6 at RED Studios Hollywood to the permanent location in Irvine. There will be a bit of downtime during the move.

We have heard some competitors say that we have only shipped a few EPICs out to "my friends". While it is true that some early RED ONE customers, which also happen to have become my friends, have received EPIC-Ms... but the total number of EPIC-Ms out now is in excess of 250. I think that is half the population of Alexa's. The number shipped EPICs should surpass 500 before NAB.

Jim

Congrats!

E

 

[Emanuel A.]

... for my 2 units

... for my 2 units

Great news!
Hope EPIC-s will follow sooooon..

Same here, waiting since...well, just waiting and expecting it ;-)

 

[Spike Baumann]

We have heard some competitors say that we have only shipped a few EPICs out to "my friends".

Jim

You have competitors?

 

[Michael Epple]

Is there going to be an order blast for stage 3 before NAB? I know Jim had said that date was the cutoff for camera orders that would ship by end of summer.

 

[Daniil Vyshemirskyi]

May I ask about redmotePRO? The one with follow focus. Is it anywhere near production, or is it just a plan for now? I mean I understand that Cameras come first, but any news on other modules?

 

[Richard N. Metzker]

Where is Epic - X

Where is Epic - X

I am concerned that everyone in Stage 2 (which I am apart of ) and people in Stage 3 are told to hold tight while Epic-M gets delivered. So there are thousands of us who put our money down 9 months ago (deposit) for a Epic-X and we wait patiently while people can jump the queue with Epic-M for a price. There is this idea that an additional 250 Epics will be delivered before NAB but are any of these Epic-Xs. I got my hands on the Red One March 2008 and 3 of them in April 2008, so I have been there in the beginning. The majority of us with Epic-X didn't consider Epic-M because the price, Epic-X deposit and delivery date (?) of Epic-X. Since Epic-M would only have a few short months behind Epic-X. Is Epic-X still a few months behind or is it longer? How long?

In addition, I am told Solid State drives are not available because Red is dealing with back orders of Red RAM Drives and Red Drive back orders. Red apparetly needs to fulfilled "back orders" before you get the Red One Solid State module and SSDs out to Red One owners. My understanding Red stopped building Red RAMs and Red Drives a year ago because I wanted to purchase more Red Drives and I was told Red does not sell these items. I find it hard believe that Red is dealing with Red Drive back orders, since Epic-M gets 3 SSDs per camera. If 250 Epics-M have been shipped that's 750 SSDs. Have all the SSDs been going to Epic-M

I have been told by Red that there are no delivery dates for "New Orders of SSD" nor where I am in the queue. Since I ordered SSD when they came out, I am not sure what "new orders actually" means.

Brent@Red 's discussion on Media

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=641469&postcount=45

We are in the process of moving EPIC production from Stage 6 at RED Studios Hollywood to the permanent location in Irvine. There will be a bit of downtime during the move.

We have heard some competitors say that we have only shipped a few EPICs out to "my friends". While it is true that some early RED ONE customers, which also happen to have become my friends, have received EPIC-Ms... but the total number of EPIC-Ms out now is in excess of 250. I think that is half the population of Alexa's. The number shipped EPICs should surpass 500 before NAB.




Jim

 

[jimhare]

Hi Richard,

I am stage 2 as well, and understand your concerns, but the reality is Epic M isn't causing us to wait any longer for Epic X, it's a different line completely.

My guess is that vast majority, if not all Epic M buyers are in that first couple of waves anyway.

Basically, there is nothing unfair going on here. Red are facing a series of realities and navigating them extremely well as they go.

Their choice was to get some Epics into the wild or not. I'm glad they did and I applaud those with the foresight and funds to get one. It's benefitting the entire community to no end.

We need to remember that Red is not required to give us trade in credit for our Reds. Seriously, they were so incredibly well priced and capable in the first place.

It all comes down to Red's commitment to us early adopters, which I think is amazing.

Just my 2¢

I am concerned that everyone in Stage 2 (which I am apart of ) and people in Stage 3 are told to hold tight while Epic-M gets delivered. So there are thousands of us who put our money down 9 months ago (deposit) for a Epic-X and we wait patiently while people can jump the queue with Epic-M for a price. There is this idea that an additional 250 Epics will be delivered before NAB but are any of these Epic-Xs. I got my hands on the Red One March 2008 and 3 of them in April 2008, so I have been there in the beginning. The majority of us with Epic-X didn't consider Epic-M because the price, Epic-X deposit and delivery date (?) of Epic-X. Since Epic-M would only have a few short months behind Epic-X. Is Epic-X still a few months behind or is it longer? How long?

In addition, I am told Solid State drives are not available because Red is dealing with back orders of Red RAM Drives and Red Drive back orders. Red apparetly needs to fulfilled "back orders" before you get the Red One Solid State module and SSDs out to Red One owners. My understanding Red stopped building Red RAMs and Red Drives a year ago because I wanted to purchase more Red Drives and I was told Red does not sell these items. I find it hard believe that Red is dealing with Red Drive back orders, since Epic-M gets 3 SSDs per camera. If 250 Epics-M have been shipped that's 750 SSDs. Have all the SSDs been going to Epic-M

I have been told by Red that there are no delivery dates for "New Orders of SSD" nor where I am in the queue. Since I ordered SSD when they came out, I am not sure what "new orders actually" means.

Brent@Red 's discussion on Media

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=641469&postcount=45

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

In addition, I am told Solid State drives are not available because Red is dealing with back orders of Red RAM Drives and Red Drive back orders.

I can't speak as to RED RAM, but when it comes to RED DRIVE, that's nonsense: they had certainly cleared the backorder some time ago. I bought a RED DRIVE from the store a month or so ago, and it was delivered two days later; no backorder. I was told it was one of the last ones they had, left over after they had *satisfied all backorders* for RED DRIVEs. So whatever is holding up SSDs, it isn't that.

Mike

 

[Rick Darge]

My question is this, when the Red One first shipped in the very beginning, they were sending out machined parts for some of the components because the production mills weren't in full force yet. Why didn't Red just call the Epic-Ms, Epic-Xs and start shipping these out in small quantities rather than increase the overall cost for the package? As a Stage-2 customer with no end in sight, I'm in a little pain right now while I watch others get their Epic-Ms and hear about how Red will deliver 250 more Epic-Ms before NAB. I love Red's imagery but am starting to get really stressed out over these delivery dates. I email Red every week about the status of my BombEVF and am told within a few weeks to a month away.

Hi Richard,

I am stage 2 as well, and understand your concerns, but the reality is Epic M isn't causing us to wait any longer for Epic X, it's a different line completely.

My guess is that vast majority, if not all Epic M buyers are in that first couple of waves anyway.

Basically, there is nothing unfair going on here. Red are facing a series of realities and navigating them extremely well as they go.

Their choice was to get some Epics into the wild or not. I'm glad they did and I applaud those with the foresight and funds to get one. It's benefitting the entire community to no end.

We need to remember that Red is not required to give us trade in credit for our Reds. Seriously, they were so incredibly well priced and capable in the first place.

It all comes down to Red's commitment to us early adopters, which I think is amazing.

Just my 2¢

 

[Brigham Edgar]

Rick, it's pretty simple mate. They said a long time ago that the 'M' was a handbuilt in-house camera with a few unique pieces, an early essentially BETA firmware camera and available at a premimum price. It has nothing to do with the 'X' production line and it has no effect at all on how many and when the 'X' will ship.
Granted a LOT more 'M' models are shipping than the handful Jim mentioned early on and that may raise questions as to why, but this is RED...nothing is typical behavior and in the overwhelming amount if cases it far exceeds what any other 'company' would...I emphasize company as RED is more like a community than a big profit conglomerate. It also brings about some downsides with one being a very poor record of availability on the products. The SSD or any recording media problem is a MAJOR issue as CF cards just don't cut it for the vast and overwhelming majority of owners.
I don't care how many 'M' models are out there but delivering then with accessories that R1 owners have been waiting not only months but well over a year for isn't really fair. I understand the desire in getting the new premium cameras out there but maybe these need to be held off for the moment to fill all the R1 orders with existing cameras, even if it means stockpiling 'M' on the shelf for a while.
I still hope I'm wrong but this accessory shortfall of major components is a real issue and was and still an issue from the R1 days and u for one hope this clears and is solved before the 'X' run. If there are potentially 1000's of R1's that can't get their cameras kitted out yet...can you imagine 1000's if not 10000's of Epics in the mix to slow it all down.
Who knows, the pressure of Alexa may be playing it's hand to get more 'M' out the door kitted up and to silence some of the industry critics.
That's why I think the delay from recent events may even help if it means the needed accessories may catch up a little in supply levels.
My 2 cents worth...

 

[Rick Darge]

I just want to go on record to say that I'm not trying to be a negative nancy or anything, I'm just worried. At the end of the day a single success for RED is a success for us all. We all benefit and I would be lying if I said Red didn't change my game & my life forever. I'm forever in their debt. I just wish I had my Epic because this HDRx movement is FUCKING incredible and I think really the sleeping giant of this whole Red movement. Kudos to everyone!

 

[James Brundige]

My question is this, when the Red One first shipped in the very beginning, they were sending out machined parts for some of the components because the production mills weren't in full force yet. Why didn't Red just call the Epic-Ms, Epic-Xs and start shipping these out in small quantities rather than increase the overall cost for the package? As a Stage-2 customer with no end in sight, I'm in a little pain right now while I watch others get their Epic-Ms and hear about how Red will deliver 250 more Epic-Ms before NAB. I love Red's imagery but am starting to get really stressed out over these delivery dates. I email Red every week about the status of my BombEVF and am told within a few weeks to a month away.

The waiting is stressful for sure. Even though the M program may delay the X cameras, there are real benefits. It's probably about what the camera really costs, and having these machined cameras out there on big productions helps all of us sell Red to producers. I just wish I had the throughput these days to justify that expense, but nature docs just don't spin off that kind of cash. The X program is such a killer deal, and just a couple (few?) months behind. Firmware will be that much better. My only regret is how close Stage 3 will be to Stage 2 delivery. We won't get to be special for very long. No bombs from Stage 3 folks, please. Humor is best response to this situation. And don't forget: Camera specs and delivery dates just might change.

The EVF thing has definitely been Red's weakest moment. I had to rent one to shoot my Red One in 2007, and am still waiting for the Bomb. Weird to sell a camera without a viewfinder. It would be nice to know exactly what the hangup is. Are M's sucking up the limited supply? Please please please tell me the components are not made in Japan.

 

[Rick Darge]

I never said anything about resenting anything. I don't like it when other Redusers simplify others situations into their own world view. Everyone values a dollar differently. Everyone has different types of markets they're targeting. These delays can affect someone on a minor scale or a major scale depending on their situation. It's presumptuous to think otherwise.

 

[David Podosek]

Welcome to the neighborhood Mr. J! I am a graphic designer at the company next to the new building you are moving into in Irvine. I am a huge fan of Oakley and RED and almost flipped my lid when I found out you guys were moving in. I will come by with a plate of brownies once you are settled in :w00t:

 

[christopher witzke]

Brownies and CNC mills are a dangerous combination dude. Form what I hear, Tirimusu is the sweet of choice. I'd imagine a case of Red Bull might go over well too.