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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Enter the Dragon

Jason Rudd said:
This does beg the question - without a Scarlet with Dragon sensor, what will be the new entry level system?

1) Scarlet - X with M-X will remain the entry level?

2) A 4K 2/3" inch Scarlet ;) Hint. Hint.
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why on earth would we want a 2/3 scarlet??
 
Hey Paul, I just said "increased need" not that there is no need for ND. Naturally there is, just won't be affected by Dragon, still the same as it always was.

Paul Russell said:
I always expose RAW and set ISO later in post. As you know, it's easy to light up the traffic lights even at f22 on a 1/50 sec shutter. There will still be a need for a ND. A native ISO 100 choice/switch would be a great solution.
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I suspect anyone even considering the upgrade path should be in for a hefty price, which will actually cut a lot of people out. If your thinking about Dragon, be realistic. If you take the current price of an epic, at 19k, we know the upgrade is going to cost more then 6k, probably 8-10k putting the value of an epic dragon at about 25k. Battle tested scarlets went out at 7100$ if I remember correct, so the most you can expect is $5000-7000 trade in credit. Which if it is, is f*$#en generous. So you still should expect to pay roughly the current price of an epic.

Even if there was an upgrade path for scarlet to dragon, it would have been beyond most scarlet owners budget, or they would have bought an epic in the first place. For the ones that wanted it, it's likely this path to an epic dragon is going to please them more.

I may choose to trade in my scarlet and sell my epic. Wish I still had my scarlet 213 serial, rather then the 3568 I now own. There will be some tough decisions ahead.
 
EXACTLY! Or when you're dealing with a low paid non-professional crew where you don't have good focus pullers, or run n' gun filmmaking where you either don't have the crew or time to put down marks during blocking.

I deal with two different kinds of shootings. Low paid shoots where EVERYTHING is compromised, and well funded shoots where I can get a good focus puller and the production knows what they're doing. The low paid / no paid is as most of us know, to get contacts and keep working!

I can't tell you how many times people on DSLR shoots have said - LET'S GET A STEADICAM! - without any clue what that entails with focus pulls and having to get a remote follow focus on steadicam. It's the bane of DSLR shooting and very irritating to me.

Martin Stevens said:
Some people want a 2/3" sized sensor so they don't have to hire a focus puller.

;)
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jJason, can't you just stop down two stops? Yes, you'd nee more light, but you'd need more light anyway when using a 2/3 camera.
 
Naim Sutherland said:
So what are we looking at for cost?

If the past is any indication we'll get the current value of the body back (if we're lucky), so that would be about $8,000, right?

Then the cost of an Epic dragon will be more than $19,000+$6,000 according to Jim's post here, so maybe we can say $8,000 Epic -> Dragon upgrade cost.

So that makes it a $19k upgrade to Epic Dragon from Scarlet? Or am I missing something?
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$19,000 after trading in your Scarlet is pretty much in line with my assumptions.Unless something dramatically changes, I can't imagine it would be any less.
 
Yes, I can and will stop down. I think having a usable ISO of 2000 will help that a lot :).

I was just considering that a low cost 2/3" RED option would be a really good fit for low low budgets for both the price and the increased DOF. Then I don't have to try to add a kit fee for an Epic Dragon which would not be cheap for them - at least $600 / day more for them. Perhaps something like the BMC camera will be my solution. I was just half kidding when I brought up the 2/3". I can understand why they killed that idea a while ago.

Still, if Sony has the F5/F55 combo, perhaps RED should keep an entry level model in their cards.
 
Michael Dalton said:
I suspect anyone even considering the upgrade path should be in for a hefty price, which will actually cut a lot of people out. If your thinking about Dragon, be realistic. If you take the current price of an epic, at 19k, we know the upgrade is going to cost more then 6k, probably 8-10k putting the value of an epic dragon at about 25k. Battle tested scarlets went out at 7100$ if I remember correct, so the most you can expect is $5000-7000 trade in credit. Which if it is, is f*$#en generous. So you still should expect to pay roughly the current price of an epic. .
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Although it is always a mistake to speculate, prior upgrades never had two classes of the same camera body (BT & new). Perhaps the most equitable upgrade cost assigned will factor that in...

No matter what approach RDC takes, based on past history, Jim has treated his customers unlike any other camera company. From my pov, that has added to the brand loyalty that is the envy of others in the industry. I would suspect that anyone that bitches about cost does not understand the realities of staying in business - or funding the R&D that continues to improve the product. And talk about improvement - the teaser of the capabilities available from Dragon is amazing.

Take one month, take three or six. Whatever it takes. The wait will be worth it.
 
Speculation is gonna drive you guys insane.. so its best just take any pricing posts from non-RED people with a grain of salt.
 
Jarred What does a MX epic cost in parts only? I know there is A LOT of other stuff and cost but i was just wondering. My guess $8,000
 
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Jarred, quicky question. With the new Dragon sensor being 6144x3160 full 6K comes to an aspect ratio of 1.94:1. Will we see that new aspect ratio become the standard for other formats such as 5K and 4K? Or will we be keeping to the tried and true 1.9:1 5K and 4K current resolutions?

Also, random question on top of that. Is there really any need for 1K resolution anymore with the Dragon sensor?
 
There are some military customers we have that use 1k all the time .... we need to keep that :)
 
While You are here Jarred - just to ask again (its next to impossible to read through everything here):

With any Scarlet-to-DragonEpic trade-in program months if not year+ away - Any chance of Scarlet trade-in to "normal" non-Dragon Epic in the meantime? Then pay for a Dragon update as any other Epic owner would?
 
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