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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Enter the Dragon

Jannard said:
I'm not sure where the 21 stops came from but clearly we see a usable 18+ stops of dynamic range. Maybe more given some tweaking. In any event, it is more than any film stock we have ever seen and certainly more than any digital sensor known to man. This is meaningful. :-)

Jim
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The chart itself has 21 steps. One stop of dynamic range is measured when you can reproduce the two steps that bracket that stop. The top step of the chart is at clip, so you count the number of steps you can see then subtract 1 (because you need an end step at both ends) to get DR. With the DSC chart, each step is 1 stop apart so the math is easy. Jim's 18+ figure is very reasonable. And tweaking will continue too...

I remember testing one of their earlier (18 step charts I think) DR charts in their lab, and actually melting the chart trying to get enough light through it so that the spectroradiometer we were using to measure the brightness of each step could actually read the bottom couple of steps. Measuring this kind of DR isn't easy. The human eye certainly can't see that DR on that chart in real life. I don't think anyone has seen that chart be lit up end-to-end like that on a high quality motion picture camera. That bottom step has 1/2,097,152 less light coming from it than the brightest step. I'm sure Dave Corely will be rather impressed with this result when he sees it!

Graeme
 
Congratulations Graeme (and of course: all others!)

This looks like it is really gonna change a few things...

Love the way this is heading!

Hope I can find a way to join the party when the time is there!

G
 
Colour doesn't work that way Peter. There's no loss in colour, no gradual change until you hit clipping. It's binary in effect.

When you see highlights going to white, that's just how things were graded. It's not a decision that is being made ahead of time by the sensor data.

Graeme
 
Jannard said:
Get your wallets full... the increase in ASIC spending means the upgrade will cost a bit more. But well worth it.

Jim
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Really looking forward to Dragon and I know it's worths every $, just remember us small "video" guys that have grown up with you all the way from first moment. In these times every $ is hard work. I have upgraded to MX and then to EPIC. I hope I have the "wallet" to go to Dragon :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Speaking of which.. a ton of credit needs to go to our engineers ( and their families that we stole them from).

You know Graeme, and Rob, but there is also a whole team of software and hardware and sensor gods that work tirelessly in the background, writing code, pushing buttons, inventing.. taking huge risks solving impossible problems, Listening to Jim or my crazy ideas and then watching us have temper tantrums because something isn't working.

But they always dig down and come back up completely exceeding any expectations.

Making this stuff isn't easy. It is relentless. This is 18 hours a day , holidays and weekends , don't-go-home-till-it-is-done kind of work. .. it has been that way since we began.

I'm not a religious man but God bless our engineers.. and for all of you out there still with a drink in your hand tonight raise it and give them a nod.

They deserve it.
Click to expand...

I just want to publicly add to Jarred's words here. Over the holidays while I was writing to code to read in these "larger than normal" raw Frankie files and deal with their larger than normal DR, our sensor team have been actually playing with the electrons to make this image happen. It's remarkable to see the progression that has lead to this almost unbelievable image.

So if you're having a drink, have one for our hidden heroes of engineering!

Graeme
 
Great News! Great start of 2013.

Wondering:

- Will the Epic body handle all the changes that has to be made for the Dragon update wich the ASIC is only a "small" part of it?
(heat generation, Core speed, recording to higher Bit depth to handle higher DR 17-18 stops)

- Would it be better to do an overall new camera design? (I know it would made a lot of unhappy customers...)

- What glass (olfp/lens/filters) can handle 17-18 stops without blurring highlights? This technology will really push the whole industry!
(I hope the flat unnatural HDR look wont be the new trend)

- What is RED planning for their "new read out architecture"?
(After Jarred's word looks like it won't be global shutter technology). Very excited about this.

Jarred Land said:
Global Shutter creates foundational problems in other aspects of sensor design.... as much as everyone thinks they want a global shutter they really just want the side-effects. We took things to a whole different level.
Click to expand...

- Eager to see some skin tones.

- It looks like the new iso will be closer to 200/400 than 800/2000 (great news as we still will have low noise possibilities in the 2000 area). We gain some additional highlights!

- I think we won't see any Dragon in Epic-M nr 008, sorry Ketch ;-) before june 2013.
(They are just having the first engineering tests being made now.)

HOLD YOUR BREATH AND BE PATIENT!

Pat
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Congratulations Graeme (and of course: all others!)

This looks like it is really gonna change a few things...

Love the way this is heading!

Hope I can find a way to join the party when the time is there!

G
Click to expand...


Well, mostly our amazing sensor guys! They're so into sensors they speak another language than us mere mortals can understand. I pick up enough from them to decode the files, but that's about it :-) It's such a pleasure to get such amazing files to decode though, files that look and feel so nice and respond so well to the image pipeline and have so much DR in them. Quite incredible.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Well, mostly our amazing sensor guys! They're so into sensors they speak another language than us mere mortals can understand. I pick up enough from them to decode the files, but that's about it :-) It's such a pleasure to get such amazing files to decode though, files that look and feel so nice and respond so well to the image pipeline and have so much DR in them. Quite incredible.

Graeme
Click to expand...

I can somehow (of course not directly) relate to the feeling of starting to work on something and all of a sudden realizing:
Gee, this is kinda magic

Enjoy the fun!
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Well, mostly our amazing sensor guys! They're so into sensors they speak another language than us mere mortals can understand. I pick up enough from them to decode the files, but that's about it :-) It's such a pleasure to get such amazing files to decode though, files that look and feel so nice and respond so well to the image pipeline and have so much DR in them. Quite incredible.

Graeme
Click to expand...



Looks like you received a new baby that you have to take care and cherish.

I wish you the best for this crazy year Magic Graeme! ;-)

Pat
 
Just a question about compressed RAW. Right now on the Epic I struggle to record anything past 2000 ISO, not because the MX sensor is noisy but because Recode gets very 'artifacty' at high ISOs. Having this much DR is great, but will there be changes to the way redcode works to allow recording of much higher ISOs?

Or is this simply that dragon is more sensitive, so the RAW recording will naturally look better at high iso due to a better RAW signal in the first place?
 
Jarred Land said:
1357064610.jpg
Click to expand...

would be nice to see same chart by an M-X sensor ...

thanks

g


g
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Colour doesn't work that way Peter. There's no loss in colour, no gradual change until you hit clipping. It's binary in effect.

When you see highlights going to white, that's just how things were graded. It's not a decision that is being made ahead of time by the sensor data.

Graeme
Click to expand...

In the case of highlights, I get it... But what about the low end of the spectrum? I know that when we dive in the ocean and light levels become low that we perceive fewer colors. Is that strictly because the water is absorbing those wave lengths or are we also sensing less color for other reasons related to reflection and the amount of light reaching the retina?
 
Jesper Sichlau said:
My Dragon T-shirt just got cool :) This sounds fantastic
But still a bit worried about how much to save for the Scarlet --> Epic trade ins. No doubt it will be a fantastic offer. But please give us a heads up as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

I second that - please let us know as soon as possible what the cost might be - I expect it to be way more then the original "around $6k" upgrade price that was tossed around. Still will pull my leg out to make it happen but an early heads up would really really help.
 
:hurray:
Congrats guys! Amazing work! I'm blown away...
:drool:
 
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