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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Easy FCP post

O

Oliver Peters

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This well worth a look if your new to editing red. Good post
Paul
 
FCP workflow is great, but...

FCP workflow is great, but...

How to conform a project that was edited with offline Prores (LT) or DVCPRO720 files created by RedRushes? The abovementioned workflow only works if you use FCP's Log and Transfer to create offline files. If the offline files were generated by RedRushes or anything other than FCP, you CANNOT "Batch Capture" them in FCP. Batch Capture will not open Log and Transfer window but instead will start looking for a video deck, because the metadada of the offline files does not include information about tapeless Original Media file.

However technically you can manually Log and Transfer 2K REDCODE-wrapped Quicktimes, and then reconnect the media in your offline timeline.

BUT - only if your offline files were rendered with Edgecode and NOT TOD timecode, because it seems to me Apple only recognizes Edgecode as the source's timecode when doing Log and Transfer.

So am I out of luck if I have offline files with TOD timecode?
 
No, not out of luck, if you use Clipfinder instead.
 
Clipfinder worked well for me for a few music videos, but every once in a while there would be some minor glitches. On this particular project (feature) however it just totally rendered itself useless - errors left and right, footage does not match, freeze frames instead if video, in and out points messed up on A LOT of clips. Color Fixer was no help either. Called Apple support - and of course they said tat since it's a tthird party software, they wash their hands.
 
Pasha Patriki said:
Clipfinder worked well for me for a few music videos, but every once in a while there would be some minor glitches. On this particular project (feature) however it just totally rendered itself useless - errors left and right, footage does not match, freeze frames instead if video, in and out points messed up on A LOT of clips. Color Fixer was no help either. Called Apple support - and of course they said tat since it's a tthird party software, they wash their hands.
Click to expand...

Sounds like timecode mixups on the proxy render (TOD/ABS)
 
What do you mean by "proxy render"? The offline renders I did with RedRushes? Should I have selected Edgecode not TOD/External TC?


SO what's the solution then? Should one always render offline files with Edgecode and never with TOD/External TC?

But what about syncing then, what if you were planning on relying on the External TC from the sync box attached to the camera by the sound engineer, so you can sync the footage with the audio?

Does anyone know about the best way to sync dailies in post by the way?
I don't really deal with that side of things usually, but it always helps to understand every step of the process.

Thanks!
 
In addition to the previous post...

After reading many posts here on RedUser I came to a conclusion that in most cases it is a single entity dealing with the post workflow - from edit to conform to color correction. That is better of course.

But what if - like in my case - I am only responsible for conform and color grading, so the project is handed to me as a locked picture FCP timeline. So it's up to me to figure out now how to make the conform work, while offline edit was completely out of my control.

The dailies were done in DVCPRO720 using TOD/External timecode (RedRushes).
I've tried every possible way, basing my workflow on RED FCP Whitepaper, and of course I cannot get to the point of being able to to "Batch Capture".

Problem #1: dailies were done NOT through FCP L&T.

Problem #2: dailies have TOD timecode, which FCP's L&T does not recognize.


So what's the best workflow then???????

RedRushes is great because it can do TC burn-in, and it can do various resolutions. But conform in FCP later is pain in the butt.

FCP L&T is great because it makes the conform easy. But you can only render 2K resolution. And it does not allow TC burn-in. Sucks. Or are we now at the age where we don't have to worry about source TC burn-in anymore?
 
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Hello, don't want to hijhack this thread about this useful blogpost but I wrote a few scripts to allow an offline EDL or XML to import in REDCINE-X and then roundtrip back to FCP... It worked for some people altho still in beta form. It does work with TOD TC and with multiple subclips edited from large R3D takes... Look below in my signature if you want to give it a try...

HTH

Mikael
 
I agree that there are plenty of scenarios in which this process doesn't work. The point was to lay out an easy way to use FCP/Color (as intended) if you had not already started the process some other way. I personally prefer to render good ProRes files first and not go back to the R3D files. ClipFinder and Rubber Monkey are the two main 3rd party approaches, but anything that uses these methods is not going to be perceived as "easy" by anyone first attempting this process.

- Oliver
 
Agreed, on all counts.
Making "good native" prores is also a way to go. But again, that's only great when YOU are doing post from start to finish.
In my case I get handed an edited project for color correction.
Clipfinder, as mentioned, does not quite work all the time. And with such history in mind, I wouldn"t just batch the whole feature and assume that everything went well. I would have to check each and every edit after conform.
 
Pasha Patriki said:
Making "good native" prores is also a way to go. But again, that's only great when YOU are doing post from start to finish.
Click to expand...

PS: I don't agree there. This is no different than a best-light film transfer with final color grading done as a tape-to-tape correction. That's a pretty standard procedure. Rendering a good ProRes file and then doing all further correction in post from those ProRes files is the equivalent and also commonly done. And not just when one person handles all the post. It's often done when multiple editors and/or facilities are involved.

FWIW - I covered that workflow pretty thoroughly in the first article, which is linked within the new post.

- Oliver
 
I know the workflow you are talking about and it's great, but the Prores files with "native" encoding are huge, they are similar to the original footage in their size. And even the FCP Whitepaper says that they might be a little too bulky for some systems.
 
Pasha Patriki said:
…but the Prores files with "native" encoding are huge, they are similar to the original footage in their size
Click to expand...

If you're talking about Log and Transfer, "ProRes" and "Native" are an either/or. It can't be both "native" and ProRes.

1080 ProRes(HQ) and 4K REDCODE native are similar data rates, but FCP is heavily optimised for ProRes, so transcoding to ProRes makes working with the footage a lot easier on the machine.
 
Nick, of course. I meant "Quicktime". Either "Prores" or "native" as L&G calls it, which is a rewrapped Redcode QT.
In your experience, what has better real time playback in both FCP and Color?
 
Just for clarification, when I'm talking about ProRes files (and NOT using the method I outlined in the Easy Post II blog post), I'm actually talking about generating ProRes files outside of the FCP world. For example, in Redcine-X, or via ClipFinder and not via Log & Transfer. That gives you the best control over "pre-grading" the image out of raw, so that you have very little to do in post-grading.

Here, my workflow is to cull the selects (using ClipFinder), then render color-graded ProRes (or ProResHQ) files. If you need something lightweight for editing, use Compressor or another encoder to create edit proxies, like DVCPROHD or ProResProxy. Set the higher-res files aside and edit with the proxy (lower resolution) files. In the end, relink to the higher res files.

FWIW, a dual-G5 will handle playback of ProRes files without too much problem.

- Oliver
 
Oliver, your workflow may not be suitable on a feature - how would you select the files/takes to render into ProRes? How would you know which takes to render? You would just watch the HOURS of footage in Clipfinder and hand-picked some takes? That's crazy. You would have to render almost everything. Either way, the dailies have to be delivered first - and that's ALL footage.
Even if you have a detailed script/continuity/camera report which indicates "good" takes, it is still uncommon to only render "ggod" takes, as quite often there are part of the "not so good" takes that end up being used in a a scene.
 
Pasha Patriki said:
Oliver, your workflow may not be suitable on a feature - how would you select the files/takes to render into ProRes? How would you know which takes to render?
Click to expand...

In my suggested workflow, the director picks selects on set. Initially you'd render about 20-30%. You can always go back and render additional takes. That's how it used to be done with film. If you needed more you ordered up B-neg. This is no big deal if you have the Red Rocket card. Or...

Modify the workflow for a feature.

1. Render all takes to an editable proxy format, like ProResProxy or LT
2. Edit and generate XML or EDL
3. Parse list for shots in final sequence
4. Render high-quality ProRes or DPX
5. Conform / relink

- Oliver
 
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