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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Early Adopters...

My wild guess is a brand new camera from Red that incorporates the Dragon sensor and is less of a modular approach and more of a one size fits all camera. Properly balanced. Proper everything. Super nasty high res bitchin sensor and all for a bit more than you would pay for an Epic X Dragon brain.

Early adopters will get the option of first dibs on the new camera and possibly another heavy discount.

This camera will shoot to Pro Res and to RAW similar to the F5/F55 and will basically be Red's big slam down against both ARRI and Sony.

These are just feelings based on what has happened in the past and what could very well happen going forward. I for one would be very pleased with a camera that was lighter than the Red One but had similar ergonomics and functionality. Like standard HD-SDI plugs, 2x lemo ports, quieter fan, little more power hungry but that's OK

I'm all ears
 
Rick Darge said:
My wild guess is a brand new camera from Red that incorporates the Dragon sensor and is less of a modular approach and more of a one size fits all camera. Properly balanced. Proper everything. Super nasty high res bitchin sensor and all for a bit more than you would pay for an Epic X Dragon brain.

Early adopters will get the option of first dibs on the new camera and possibly another heavy discount.
Click to expand...

I don't think Red is going for a new body right now. I agree that Red design approach can be a bit conter-intuitive concerning shoulder balanced and build in option/plugs and accessories, but that's also the strongest point, as a Red Epic can be so small and light compare to an alexa and it the same time can take a huge angenieux zoom and all motor and accessories you need, but yes it gets a bit messy (so you go for the meizler ;-)

As for the "surprize" for early adopter, I hope you don't have to be at nab, because I cannot make it.
 
Red #63 reporting in! I still vividly remember flying down to RED HQ and "picking up" my camera with the other 50-100 owners. The giddy feeling when the Red employee handed me my camera, and then I went "shopping" at their makeshift accessories store next to all the boxed Oakley shoes. Ah memories!

Mine was the first RED in our state. I love disruptive technologies. Way back in 1990 I was the first get get a Video Toaster in my state as well. I love being an early adopter of technology. It's served me well, to say the least.

Sadly can't make NAB this year, first time in many years I haven't. But I'll be watching.
 
Rick Darge said:
My wild guess is a brand new camera from Red that incorporates the Dragon sensor and is less of a modular approach and more of a one size fits all camera.
Click to expand...

That statement totally contradicts itself. A one size fits all approach would return the RED concept to a bulky camera like the RED One or Alexa. Then you would have to take all the advantages of the smaller DSMC form factor and toss them out the window. Or do what the SI2K or Alexa M do and run your camera "head" tethered. I think RED is definitely on the right track with the modular approach. Although I'm confused about some of their design choices. Module adapter? The DSMC brain concept sheds all the extra bulk that not everyone needs. Much of the time, I can run with the brain, LCD or EVF, side SSD module and side handle. Just wish the Redvolt batteries lasted longer. They pack quite a bit of juice in a small battery, the camera is just a power hog with all that goes on inside.

These are just feelings based on what has happened in the past and what could very well happen going forward. I for one would be very pleased with a camera that was lighter than the Red One but had similar ergonomics and functionality. Like standard HD-SDI plugs, 2x lemo ports, quieter fan, little more power hungry but that's OK
Click to expand...

For cinema, ENG, EFP style motion work, I agree with this sentiment. However, for serious stills work, remote location and crew-of-1 shooting conditions, there are times the EPIC still feels a bit too big and chunky with no extra modules on it. When it all boils down, I think I'd prefer they stick with the modular approach so that we can keep the core camera in as small of a form factor as possible.

Now if RED were to offer the DSMC modular flavor as well as a larger and more integrated form-factor model like you speak of, I would be all for that too. And I would love to own one of each. ;)

OTOH, I think the Meizler module accomplishes this. An EPIC + Meizler has all the I/O one would typically need, and then some, and the package cost is still less than an F55 body. Probably still cheaper even after Dragon upgrade.

I would love to see modular sensor/ OLPF systems brought into this mix. I would really like an EPIC Monochrome, but the purchase of a whole other camera brain keeps stalling me off. Sure, I know the brain is a very trimmed-down camera and only one smaller piece of the entire kit. But instead of a $22K brain, I'd be all for a $15K sensor package that can be swapped out when needed. Or make sensor upgrades an end user procedure moving forward.


Of course this is all academic and everyone is going to have their own opinions and preferences based on their needs. I think that's where RED is on the money with the modular approach. They are only scratching the surface of what a modular approach like this can truly do... The full data path is available to modules in the system and we should be able to add modules that capitalize on this -- like alternative compression format modules, uncompressed modules, special processing and FX modules, etc.. The problem right now is the R&D investment (mostly time) and the cost of the silicon inside to actually deal with the full data throughput of what the camera "sees".
 
2 paths

2 paths

To add to Jeff's notes, the Scarlet/Epic implementation of modular adds wonderful flexibility, but has some typical first generation issues.

I see two paths RED could take from here:

1) new brain/body with more composite materials for lower weight and better passive cooling properties, more advanced management of fan acoustics and the ability to directly attach modules to the brain w/o an adapter.

2) current brain design with a hybrid rear module that's a cross between the Meizler and the ProI/O with proxy recording, wireless monitor output and a battery plate on the back (V or AB, swappable)

My assumption would be that once RED had a handle on what it would take to host the Dragon properly, they chose a course that will be revealed shortly.

Cheers - #19
 
I have to believe that having gone to all the effort of creating a rich modular ecosystem with all kinds of flexibility, that RED will continue to go down that path...perhaps with some Meizler-esqe combination modules that merge commonly requested features in one package.
 
The Meizler still says "coming soon." I wonder if there are some changes coming to it at NAB.
 
Tom Greenberg said:
I have to believe that having gone to all the effort of creating a rich modular ecosystem with all kinds of flexibility, that RED will continue to go down that path...perhaps with some Meizler-esqe combination modules that merge commonly requested features in one package.
Click to expand...

I agree they will stick with continuing modularity... but I can also see a re-sizing of the brain due to board miniaturization and new compounds to downsize and lighten the load. I always felt RED making the camera bodies like a tank as following the trend of the times to glorify Transformer-like machinery or battle gear. The new trend seems to be toward small and powerful. There's no reason a new brain can't be smaller in size and weight and still connect with the accessories we've already bought.


(I still think they should go to the Shuttle Surplus website and buy up all those unused Shuttle Heat Tiles and re-purpose them to make their camera bodies. ) '-)
 
John Wee said:
Lets hope tht scarlet owners won't be left out and have that middle child symptom.
Click to expand...

Usually their is no medals for those who arrive after the battle.
Cheers.
B.
 
Brice Ansel said:
Usually their is no medals for those who arrive after the battle.
Cheers.
B.
Click to expand...

Cool. No reinforcements for you then. Hope you survive the next battle. If you haven't noticed, the war has not been won.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Cool. No reinforcements for you then. Hope you survive the next battle. If you haven't noticed, the war has not been won.
Click to expand...
Comon mate stop whining, where is your sense of humour?
 
Brice Ansel said:
Usually their is no medals for those who arrive after the battle.
Cheers.
B.
Click to expand...

Geez . . . "after the battle"

Better not tell that the late adopters Apple / Jobs who reinvented several mature industries - becoming the largest and most admired company in the process.

Showed Disney how to make movies with Pixar
Showed the Music industry how to distribute their product with iTunes
Showed Nokia, Motorola etc how to build phones
Showed Microsoft how to build a tablet and evolve beyond the desktop
Showed the Retail industry how to provide customer service while making amazing profit
Showed Canon how to build a point n shoot camera that is always with you and connected
. . . etc

Wonder what a $1000 in Apple stock at 2006 prices would look like now . . .

-Josh
Late Adopter
 
Steve Sherrick said:
I'll trade you my R for all of your knowledge. :-)
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I love this post! I'm right behind steve!

Dino

P.s. on a shoot now, then I play in a playoff adult leave hockey game, then sleep a little, then on a plane to vegas at 6am. Can't wait to be at the booth when they open, just like 7 years ago, already received my reward for being early, and then some...but, I'll gladly receive more.
 
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