DSMC2 Beta Build v6.4.17 / IPP2 / April Shipment Update

[Gene Sung]

Reuben, like Jarred said, with the upgrades not being entirely in our control (ie, depends on when an allocated camera can make it in to us), harder to give estimates. I can say the upgrade lines are pumping just like the new camera ones. Our production team is really doing a great job load balancing on a daily basis to make sure we are progressing on every front.

Watching this IPP2 business from the sidelines is killing me! Godspeed on the upgrades, especially us existing Scarlet-W to Epic-W kids. Yes, I have a bias! LOL.

The extra stop of light and IPP2 just makes me weep as it's close, but out of reach.

 

[Jon Dishler]

Graeme,

I read that there is an improved demosaic algorithm, does this mean that we might get a more detailed image with a higher compression factor? I am very, very impressed with this update! It is amazing. One of my favorite features, not mentioned, is how the side handle can be used dynamically with edge focus and when in focus the LCD returns to the image automatically - that is so cool! I also have re-tested some items and see that the fringing is way less and there is no green/purple issues anymore. I also like the images in 2k and 4k Prores - they match the R3D images with the same LUT applied - something that was not true before. The 2k Prores 444 is a hidden gem for sure. Overall just fantastic! Thanks to the Red team. Cannot wait for my second Epic W trade to happen, although great images with the update also in the Scarlet W but less options.

 

[Brodie Gwilliam]

we need that audio in varispeed for dsmc1 cameras

 

[Stacey Spears]

I read that there is an improved demosaic algorithm, does this mean that we might get a more detailed image with a higher compression factor?

Higher compression may reduce detail vs. lower compression. This is unrelated to demosaic. Helium sensor has lower noise floor, so you can use higher compression with Helium. Mark Pederson (Offhollywood) has demonstrated this.

Here is an animated GIF showing old (IPP1) vs. new (IPP2) demosaic. Open in a new window to see full size. Look at the tip of the wedge on the far right. It changes every few seconds between old and new debayer.

 

[Jon Dishler]

Thanks Stacey. I have looked at Epic W on 5k monitor with this new firmware, and even at 16:1 it really looks great and not any different in resolution on "normal" targets. I am sure given enough image detail, I would see the difference. Your GIF shows some improvement in IPP2 and with 8k photo sites horizontally, it is interesting that higher compressions might be fine. I know there was another thread on this topic, I just thought that with the features listed, there might be some additional improvements in camera now activated on the Helium sensor cameras -- but maybe not.

Best,

Jon

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

Just upgraded, really awesome!

A bug I noticed -- when in IMAGE > IMAGE PIPELINE > OPTIONS in IPP2 mode, my Sidekick will not allow me to select or change Output Color Space, Output Tone Map, or Highlight Roll-Off while using it in MONITOR CONTROL mode (via HD-SDI). Basically I can change from LEGACY to IPP2, but the directional pad does not allow me to go further down the menu.

If I switch the Sidekick to the mode where the menus show up there, it works just fine.

Just wanted to submit!

 

[Robert Gustafsson]

Just upgraded, really awesome!

A bug I noticed -- when in IMAGE > IMAGE PIPELINE > OPTIONS in IPP2 mode, my Sidekick will not allow me to select or change Output Color Space, Output Tone Map, or Highlight Roll-Off while using it in MONITOR CONTROL mode (via HD-SDI). Basically I can change from LEGACY to IPP2, but the directional pad does not allow me to go further down the menu.

If I switch the Sidekick to the mode where the menus show up there, it works just fine.

Just wanted to submit!

Same issue with the DSMC2 Sidehandle.

 

[TheBied]

How does the varispeed audio work? I updated, but when I'm in varispeed mode, I still don't see any audio monitoring, nor is there any audio in my R3D when I import it.

Thanks!

I have the exact same problem... Any solutions?

The Ops Guide for the beta is up as well:
https://www.red.com/downloads?category=Documents&release=beta

 

[AndreasOberg]

These are great! (the rest too)

Audio recording in Varispeed is also in beta, so when you record slo-motion you at least get some reference audio.

Some great little things.... like you now will see our Logo on the screen a few seconds into bootup so you can actually tell your camera is on during bootup instead of just staring at a black screen till picture up. I got a bit sick of the whole tilt-head-sideways-to-check-your-power-during-bootup-dance to make sure everything was ok so glad to finally have slipped that in.

Getting ready for jungle filming in Sri Lanka, can't wait too bring the Epic out into the field where it deserves to be!
Andreas

 

[Rich Miro]

That splash logo is so money. Can I get an AMEN. Lets everyone know on set it's about to get serious!!!

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Graeme,

I read that there is an improved demosaic algorithm, does this mean that we might get a more detailed image with a higher compression factor? I am very, very impressed with this update! It is amazing. One of my favorite features, not mentioned, is how the side handle can be used dynamically with edge focus and when in focus the LCD returns to the image automatically - that is so cool! I also have re-tested some items and see that the fringing is way less and there is no green/purple issues anymore. I also like the images in 2k and 4k Prores - they match the R3D images with the same LUT applied - something that was not true before. The 2k Prores 444 is a hidden gem for sure. Overall just fantastic! Thanks to the Red team. Cannot wait for my second Epic W trade to happen, although great images with the update also in the Scarlet W but less options.

Yes in REDCine-X (and future IPP2 SDK) there's a new sharper demosaic.

Graeme

 

[peter richweisz]

i almost headed out Saturday night when i saw the new firmware. Thanks. Just to share my journey as it might help other first timers like myself. Very first red firmware update, so i just got right into it and followed the bullet points, everything went just fine until i attached my dmsc2 side handle. No responds. Restart, Unsupported module, Please remove, Removed, restart. No way i could get it work on the new firmware so i rolled back to the old one with handle on, it was working perfecto, reinstalled 6.4 again with the handle (and all my modules i could just attach) on. Result: Unsupported module, please shot down and remove the module. Removed the side handle, restart, so i am back again, i have browsed the menu for bit. Rediscover hardware seamed rather promising, enter and bingo. All working now and loving it. Many awesome new features.
Probably it is all obvious for most of you, but i am warning the naive first timers. Just make sure your side handle is right on the side of your camera not in your pelikan case when you firmwareing on your Saturday night.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Anyone done negative luts for IPP2? So we can go from RWGRGB to rec709 for example do the the VFX work and the reverse the lut before sending it to grade so the colorist gets the VFX DPX files in RWGRGB just like the rest of the none VFX clips.

Graeme, anyone?

I have done a full IPP2 vfx pipeline on 6 spots and my workflow was to stay in RWG all the way through then go to log3g10 and apply a cube as a final step. For mixing non red footage I used the matrix transforms in the RedWideGamut whitepaper.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?152798-Log2Lin-(RLF-amp-3G10)-for-RED-Nuke-Gizmo

 

[Andrew Phillip]

I tried this upgrade this morning on my RAVEN,

but my top LCD stoped working just after the "initialysing" ... :-(
I had to un-plug and re-plug it to have the image back...
I hadn't this problem when my monitor was plug on the left side!

I decided to downgrade to 6.3 my RAVEN, I can't work with un-plug/re-plug my touchscreen at each re-start camera...

Hope that's come from the BETA firmware...

Let me know if someone had the same problem...and solution!

Thanks

I had the same issue with my Raven and 4.7 monitor. LCD displays black right after 'Initializing'. Rolled back firmware until this is fixed.

 

[Stacey Spears]

I wonder if that means a significant downgrade to the 8K S35 (Helium) owner waiting two years later for the 8K VV (Dragon) for the anamorphic feature, even though Dragon has advanced debayer and larger sensor. The ISO recalibration on the Helium looks quite impressive! Wasn't Helium only a resized Dragon?

Edit:
It can also be confusing that D.E.B. ("Dragon" Enhanced Blacks) works in REDCINE-X with both Helium and Dragon but A.D.D. (Advanced Dragon Debayer) not with Helium.

No, Helium is not resized Dragon. Its different sensor tech.
ADD works with Helium. It does not work with 8K, Dragon or Helium.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I hope this improves raw processing a bit, in my recent tests of the last firmware on Epic-W, R3D/Prores tests made it very hard to choose R3D over Prores since 8K R3Ds seemed to render noise more poorly than 4K ProresLT upscaled to 8k even at the highest REDCODE bitrates 3-4x the size of the Prores, on top of RAW not having to waste bits encoding interpolated color channels. I was hoping 8K 22:1 would look similar to 4K Prores LT at 4k since it's a similar overall bitrate, but the difference is immense. Kinda seems like the compression isn't tuned well to the debayer since it has such a huge effect on apparent noise level and sharpness compared to Prores's DCT compression. Makes me really question the value of raw workflow if it requires compression that destroys your shadow detail to be workable and requires 5x higher bitrates to achieve similar performance to the lowest bitrate prores files.

 

[Jon Dishler]

I got the same message, but just ignored it and restarted with the side handle still attached and it started up fine and recognized it. It has happened one other time, but again, just another restart and all was good. I think that it may have been I shut down holding the power button down rather than from the menu, now I always use the menu shutdown and it seems to have made that go away.

 

[Bryan Smith]

Same issues. Sometimes it boots with side handle, sometime "unsupported module" on start up

 

[Louis Maddalena]

I am super excited about all of this. I'm out of town for a few days but the first thing I do when I get back is upgrade my cameras.

 

[Jacobo Martinez]

Yes in REDCine-X (and future IPP2 SDK) there's a new sharper demosaic.

Graeme

Graeme, is this new demosaic also for epic dragon footage? Is this a automatic background thing or one has to choose it? Also , what about the debayer algorithms like lanczos3 or Mitchell, what is the best option to pair it with ?