Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dsmc..

Status
Not open for further replies.
Buck Forester said:
I'll be honest, as much as I dig RED and have planned to go RED, if the Mark II's video does well in the categories I mentioned, it may be the route I go. I could combine my wilderness photography with wilderness adventure videography in one lightweight unit I can carry in my backpack or mount on my kayak deck just like I've done with photography. Times are gettin' exciting! I'd be upset that I just plinked down some serious $$ for my Sony EX1 and related gear if I didn't love it so much.
Click to expand...

Buck, I have been reading indepth the forums and reviews of both the Sony A900 and the new Canon Mark 5D Mark II. (The former due to large print sizes at an affordable price with low iso settings which look fine to me...and the latter for the extra video add on.)

Having said that, I am being very cautious about what this CAnon 5D II can actually do.

The blog that everyone touts about the Canon 5D having great video quality has some info in it which needs to be considered and weighed against the hype.

1_ It says in the blog about the canon 5D II that an expensive video tripod was used. No mention of cost, and this was almost a second thought.

1a_ At dpreview one post said the same thing, and mentioned that the cost of such a tripod is the cost (or double) that of the camera...to get the pans to work with the canon 5D II.

2_ People, like myself, were under the impression from this blog article (vincent Laforets), that no additional lights were used at night. And he had to say reluctantly, to one response, that they did have some extra lighting.

2a_ point about the above is that the whole article is focused on hyping the camera as if you can go out and do exactly what he did with 'no budget' practically. (At least that is the impression many are taking away...)

Lastly, I feel its strange that for a 'top secret camera' that was not even ready for the test photographers, that this guy was reluctantly given a camera over the weekend...and not expected to do anything with it associated with canon. (Point is, this bit has turned out to be a good P.R. spin for them. Can you imagine me accidently walking into the room as they are unboxing it, asking to take it home...and they dont even know what it does yet...but with a "pssst...hey bud", they say, "yeah, o.k. you can.") :)

Point is...buyer beware.
I feel this camera DOES have its place.
BUT I am not sold that it will do half of what most people are dreaming it to do. (Without stifling creative freedom and requiring a lot of patience to work with.)

Within a certain style of editing and work, I can see this would be quite useful...just be careful before diving into it. Or better put, make sure it will do what you want it to do. :)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
I totally dig the 3rd Harry Potter movie that Alfonso Cuaron directed.
Each scene was a piece of art, and lots of nice camera movement...David yates on the other hand must have used the new 5D. (cut...cut...cut... no camera movment...) :)

I want flexibility as an artist to move the camera how I want.
Let the tool take stills or do motion...spin in circles...Its the tool and Im the artist. Shouldnt be the other way around. ;)
 
I agree, Dalen, and I'm certainly taking a wait-and-see approach on the new 5D. No doubt there's always hyped pre-release marketing. I still love my 'old' 5D for stills and my EX1 for video so I'm not in any hurry. But I am looking for a better solution for more remote wilderness multi-day trips where the EX1 and related gear is pretty heavy to lug to extreme locations. I'm sure I'll end up getting the new 5D even for the 21 heckapixels, since my current 5D is 12 mp. I don't buy the 'more pixels is better', but I do have a lot of people requesting huge prints that are larger than my Canon 5D and Canon Elan 7 (35mm) can sharply produce, so I'd welcome the larger file sizes all things being equal. If the HD video it produces is even half the hype, it'll be a welcome addition because I have a lot of nice Canon L glass.
 
Once the DSCM and 5Dm2 were announced, questions started popping up on this forum like, "What about Scarlet? Doesn't this kill Scarlet?" At this point, what Scarlet really had left to offer was higher frame rates (really awesome ability to overcrank), a more video-like form factor, and of course REDCODE RAW.

So, Jim, now that Scarlet has been gobbled up by the mighty DSLR Killer, I assume the DSLR Killer will be able to overcrank? The next question is: What glass is it going to take?

Answering those two questions might help a lot of people who are eying the 5Dm2 right now and wondering what exactly Jannard has up his sleeve.

What the Canon 5Dm2 obviously lacks right now is RAW, overcranking, and a form factor more suited to video. What it has going for it is all that lovely L-series glass!!
 
You are absolutely right,Nikon's image has got a lot of punch direct from camera,whereas Canon's is very artificial,u need a lot of tweaking to get decent result and also so many time had to add grain to add depth to image
[. and i feel that canon pictures direct from camera it's not so "real"... but, thats just me...[/QUOTE]
 
Daniel Chrisander said:
Nikon was given the first crack at the new video feature, because it had the weaker offering.
They assume the 3 month lead will enable Nikon to sell enough D90's to break even.
Then canon will come in with MII and make a killing. MII is a top secret camera until it is time to officially release it.
Then it will be Sony's turn. They will come with 28MP and take most of our high end business.
Click to expand...

You probably hit the nail squarely on the head with this post. (As it concerns the business aspect between the 3 companies.) ;)
Though I would expect a higher pixel count on the sony. (30-40) :)

Peace

dAlen
 
Jannard said:
I don't think skew, a consumer compression scheme and 30P only is nit-picking... unless you want to shoot home movies. Do you really believe that this camera is worthy of shooting episodics? Really? Have you ever been to a movie set?

RED is a professional camera system. And you are tying to make a Canon 5D MK whatever a professional motion capture system at any price? What exactly is your point?

Jim
Click to expand...

I don't think the "consumer compression scheme" argument is a fair one against this camera. We've all seen the videos canon posted. It looks at least as good as or better than "professional codecs" such as DVCPROHD, XDcamHD, HDV, XDCamEX, etc... On one hand it has better chroma resolution (from the looks of it, at least 4:2:2), virtually no mosquito noise, apparently handles things inside YUV colorspace (which is nice) and very little macroblocking. I know there's higher quality alternatives out there, such as redcode, but the files canon has posted are far from what you're making them out to be from a compression standpoint. YUV H.264 at 35Mbps is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe I'm missing something here, but apart from HDcam, Cineform and RedCode, what else even compares to it?

PS. I'm sure we've all seen movies at the theatre shot on plain DV... This is a huge leap from that.
 
cholo said:
I don't think the "consumer compression scheme" argument is a fair one against this camera. We've all seen the videos canon posted. It looks at least as good as or better than "professional codecs" such as DVCPROHD, XDcamHD, HDV, XDCamEX, etc... On one hand it has better chroma resolution (from the looks of it, at least 4:2:2), virtually no mosquito noise, apparently handles things inside YUV colorspace (which is nice) and very little macroblocking. I know there's higher quality alternatives out there, such as redcode, but the files canon has posted are far from what you're making them out to be from a compression standpoint. YUV H.264 at 35Mbps is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe I'm missing something here, but apart from HDcam, Cineform and RedCode, what else even compares to it?

PS. I'm sure we've all seen movies at the theatre shot on plain DV... This is a huge leap from that.
Click to expand...

Fair enough... I'll just have to stick with skew and 30P then. Sorry, my bad. Although I would rather color correct from RAW.

We have seen our footage on a 60' screen. I have only seen locked down Canon footage on my computer screen.

Jim
 
Luminous Landscape says No Jellocam spotted on 5DII

Luminous Landscape says No Jellocam spotted on 5DII

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5dmkiipre.shtml

As for the Canon 5D MKII – I see no jello-ish artifacts. I'm not saying that they may not be there, but in the day of shooting that I did, taking quite a few shots to specially look for it, I didn't see any.

[ Refers to Nikon, Sony EX-1 and RED ]

<EDIT> They're calling the beast a 'combocam' and have opened a new forum for them (some oldish RED references).
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showforum=46
 
Jannard said:
Fair enough... I'll just have to stick with skew and 30P then. Sorry, my bad. Although I would rather color correct from RAW.

We have seen our footage on a 60' screen. I have only seen locked down Canon footage on my computer screen.

Jim
Click to expand...

Add to that variable frame rates, better control over shutter angle, balanced audio inputs, more flexible physical configurability (is that a word?), interchangeable lens mounts (at least on the red one), focus and exposure assist tools, more flexible monitoring, not to mention second to none customer support all the way to the very top of the company, just to name a few.

Don't sell yourself short ;)
 
Tom said:
Why are those dealbreakers?
Click to expand...

H264 is a chroma sub-sampled (4:2:0 most likely) Long GOP codec incapable of real post manipulation or frame accurate (without transcoding) edits.

30P is a fine frame rate for web videos but without 24P no commercial, music video or narrative project will touch it. It can't be released theatrically and conversion to 24P will be messy at best. In this regard the Nikon D90, even with it's skew and Mjepg is a superior tool for indie filmmakers.
 
Evin Grant said:
H264 is a chroma sub-sampled (4:2:0 most likely) Long GOP codec incapable of real post manipulation or frame accurate (without transcoding) edits.

30P is a fine frame rate for web videos but without 24P no commercial, music video or narrative project will touch it. It can't be released theatrically and conversion to 24P will be messy at best. In this regard the Nikon D90, even with it's skew and Mjepg is a superior tool for indie filmmakers.
Click to expand...

The quicktime originals posted on dpreview look like 4:2:2 to me. I've dropped them into my timeline (newtek speededit) and so far they lend themselves to straight editing just fine. 30P is ok for commercial and music video work as long as the client likes how it looks. It's pretty straight forward to work with. Even when your final destination is 24P, most of the stuff I regularly do, such as car beauty shots and running footage can be worked with at 30P, either by slowing down to 24P or ramping up to 48P and getting rid of every second frame. YMMV
 
Daniel Chrisander said:
Mr. Sony's oldest son is married to Mr. canon's second daughter. Mr canon's brother in law is Mr. Nikon. Mr. Nikon's grand daughter is dating Mr. Sony's Niece. etc. Now you know why Sony and Canon and Nikon etc. independently dream up the same features and develop same technology and pricing, etc at the same time..

You wish for 30-40MP? No problem. Sony already developed a 40MP, APS-C sensor. They will not bring it out until they have sold enough of the current sensors to recoup their R&D expenses.

You want it now? Look at the new Leica S2 DSLR camera ($40K) with 37.5MP. (But this is older technology from Kodak.).

Waiting for Jim's new improved DSMC? : By the time Jim get ready to make a 40MP medium format at affordable prices, it will be already out of date. Look what happened to the much fanfared DSMC and Scarlet : Back to drawing board. (Extra! Extra! DSLR killer was exterminated by mighty MKII, last night in a shoot out at O.K. Corral! )

When new technologies and features are coming to market every week like an avalanche, Mr. Sunglasses Jim cannot figure out which way to turn. Everything he dreams up, turns out in the market before he can open his eyes.

Obituary: I think RED One will be Jim's last legacy. I hope the RED One survives until he could complete a final release.

So, I am a dooms sayer?
Remember: Every doom has been predicted by a dooms sayer.
Knock on wood.. heck there is no wood.. everything is cheap pressed board from china these days..
Click to expand...
where do you come from boy?.. you're posting at the wrong place.. you should be posting where you belong.. cinemat.. :poster_oops: any screenwriting forum.. or directly on the screen near you.. :sarcasm:

nice plot anyway.. sincere thoughts from the gang.. you're such a talented guy.. why are you losing your time over a place with no other legacy beyond the red one by the way?.. :whistling:
 
filmmaker's gang said:
where do you come from boy?.. you're posting at the wrong place.. you should be posting where you belong.. cinemat.. :poster_oops: any screenwriting forum.. or directly on the screen near you.. :sarcasm:

nice plot anyway.. sincere thoughts from the gang.. you're such a talented guy.. why are you losing your time over a place with no other legacy beyond the red one by the way?.. :whistling:
Click to expand...

Daniel has lost his way... and in his frustration is trying to pick a fight from behind his little mouse. :-)

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top