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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dsmc..

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Buck Forester said:
Not sure why having a good quality tripod is an issue in evaluating this camera? I shoot with a Canon 5D and I have a pretty nice tripod. I think most photographers shooting with Canon 5Ds and the 1Ds series are at a level where they recognize a good tripod is necessary for images... it's one of the most important things you can have to improve your photography. And that would carry over to videography as well. So of course people paying $3,000+ for a digital slr camera will have good tripods. In the sample video he even has a pretty nice looking car mount used for the car scene... I guess he also could've gotten someone to handhold the camera on the hood as he drove. :0
Click to expand...

The whole thing started with Nikons d90 which had some issues with the video.
It was handheld I believe. (could be wrong)
So then came the 5d II, and everyone got excited because it didnt have the same issues.

But at the same time, the testing situation was quite different.
You have one of Canons "light" guys...whatever the title is...spending some money to do a tight little project vs. the one video that went around the net, and stuck in peoples minds, of the Nikon D90.

So basically, I suppose my point was made more or less in that light.
The original question was not if you could do better footage with the canon with an expensive gyro tripod mount, etc.

The question was can you do better video handheld than the Nikon d90?
Or is the rolling shutter just as bad.

Now Jim says he can do the reset time, or whatever it is, to blow the Nikon out of the water, basically, when it comes to lower issue with rolling shutter.
The question is how much better can he do than the canon...or rather, how much better can the canon do than the Nikon. (and remember, the sample from the Nikon was not using the same conditions and equipment as the CAnon.) ;)

So maybe that clears it up. :)

Peace

dAlen
 
Hi,

just tested the D90...
24fps is at least a speed that US and Europe can work with, but the codec is ridiculous. Period. No way to intercut with my EX1 footage. Not even with dv in my opinion. For Webclips perfect, but not for TV or Projection.

the canon looks better, but 30fps are the dealbraker...

but in any case the handling of these cameras is not comparable to a camcorder..
with the d90 you have to zoom and focus with the same hand, and the focusring is far from what we are used to. so the only option is to get a full-manual lens, to get at least a chance of focussing right, giving up on the VR Option of the newer lenses.

after all the d90 is a toy compared to the d300, which stopped me from buying one.
the canon unfortunately is just a touch too expensive.

Even if Sony and Red will show their cameras in the near future, the concept of this small DSLR form factor is not suitable for proper shooting...
maybe something like a rotational grip (like the EX1 has) is a solution.

I also don't think that scarlet will have a full frame sensor (Red one hasn't one) and therefor i highly doubt that DOF will be THAT much better than say the EX1. Certainly not as good as with 35mm Adapters.

If Sony decides to get a Alpha600 or a Alpha800 out with 24,25, and 30fps out, maybe even with an xdcamex codec (and sxs cards), scarlet will have a very tough time surviving.
For me i'd rather buy a DSLR Camera with video Option than a Video Camera with a Still-Shooting Mode as my primary Photo-Equipment. Reason is that DSLR-Makers have a tremendous experience in how they have to manipulate color in camera, leading to outstanding results. if you look at the 5dMarkII Clip on the net, you'll see what i mean. this comes right out of the camera, no need to color correct. a big time saver. Or the comparison on VIMEO D90/HVX200. Skin Tone and Color. Lightyears ahead...

Exciting Times indeed, but as the reaction of Red indicates, the challenge from Sony Nikon etc is rising...
 
sorry but this fish-eye pano shot should show jello vision and i ain't seeing any. Can somebody illuminate a part-time photographer what's wrong with the 5DII? It's certainly a slow pan, but the taxis are moving fast and at some point the bus covers 1/4 of the screen. Maybe the fish-eye is somehow reducing the jello effect in this particular shot?
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/movies/mov002.html
 
joe borg said:
sorry but this fish-eye pano shot should show jello vision and i ain't seeing any. Can somebody illuminate a part-time photographer what's wrong with the 5DII? It's certainly a slow pan, but the taxis are moving fast and at some point the bus covers 1/4 of the screen. Maybe the fish-eye is somehow reducing the jello effect in this particular shot?
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/movies/mov002.html
Click to expand...

Jello is a function of focal length. The more telephoto... the more jello. If I had to shoot footage for this ad, I'd shoot as wide as possible. Preferably fisheye.

Jim
 
Jim,

A delicate question that you likely can't/won't answer: what might you say to someone who was thinking about selling all of his DSLR gear to buy into a new system in the next three months, if said person was very interested in Scarlet/DSMC?

-Sure! Buy that hot new Canon DSLR! Your lens investment will be fine with us!

-Sure! Buy that hot new Nikon DSLR! Your lens investment will be fine with us!

-Hmmm... Are you sure you need to upgrade right now? We think you'll be wanting a different kind of glass in the near future...

Not that I really hope to be using my still lenses for motion work (breathing is a pet peeve of mine), but if I'm doing this thing, I'll feel awfully sore about having to sell and repurchase lenses in a new mount 18 months from now.

Any insight you can offer would be splendid.

Thanks for all you're doing,

Will

PS: While I have your ear, a universal binary of the Red software (PPC compatible) would make you my candidate for some kind of Nobel in 2009.
 
scaesare said:
You don't really want to edit with H.264. It is an interframe codec. That is, the compression happens not only spatially but temporally. Each frame is not decompressable on it's own, but must be derived from a previous full frame. That process is lossy, and has reprecussions when editing.
Click to expand...

H.264 can have both inter and intra flavors. Each frame may be independently decompressible if desired so.
 
Jannard said:
Jello is a function of focal length. The more telephoto... the more jello. If I had to shoot footage for this ad, I'd shoot as wide as possible. Preferably fisheye.

Jim
Click to expand...


Hmmm, I guess you would avoid to show a fast spinning tire over half the height of the frame?

But suppose, your intention was to show that the video shutter is better than that of Nikon D90, maybe you would show just that:

2883935341_57d2dc00c4.jpg

It's the worst frame I found in that shot. Yes, there is of course a little bit of visible skew in this shot, but I wonder how many people are able to see it in the running clip and I wonder if you consider it a show stopper. And I do not wonder what it would look like with a D90 :innocent:

The following is the worst I have seen (flickering screens expose horizontal bands):

2884779368_8286fdfc75.jpg


I would not count too much on strong jello in the 5D II. The lack of manual controls of shutter speed, fixed 30p, no RAW, handling, all that, but the rolling shutter looks actually quite OK.
 
Jannard said:
Fair enough... I'll just have to stick with skew and 30P then. Sorry, my bad. Although I would rather color correct from RAW. Jim
Click to expand...

Is adding 24p capability to an existing 30p camera really hard from a manufacturer with high tech background? Can it be done with just firmware upgrade?

Pardon my ignorance, I just want to see if Canon 5D MK II has any more potential usage/value than it is today. Anybody in the know please enlighten me, thanks.
 
AIO Films said:
Is adding 24p capability to an existing 30p camera really hard from a manufacturer with high tech background? Can it be done with just firmware upgrade?

Pardon my ignorance, I just want to see if Canon 5D MK II has any more potential usage/value than it is today. Anybody in the know please enlighten me, thanks.
Click to expand...

The principal use of the 5D II from Canon's point of view is to make money. It is highly unlikely that Canon will render 5D II more useful than is necessary for selling it, they never did in the past. They can sell the same technology again in a different package for video, so why endanger that market?!
 
:waaa: what i find disturbing about this thread is that it shows how easy it is for the big companies to step up... I mean all canon did was to enable "write to cf" for the liveview data. It probably took one of their firmware programmers around 15 minutes to figure this out, and now they have us all up an about.
 
Eddie said:
:waaa: what i find disturbing about this thread is that it shows how easy it is for the big companies to step up... I mean all canon did was to enable "write to cf" for the liveview data. It probably took one of their firmware programmers around 15 minutes to figure this out, and now they have us all up an about.
Click to expand...

Not hard to 'step' up when you cripple features.
i.e. going from a 96% to 98% viewfinder. (Where is that big whopping other 2% that is so hard to pull out from them for a 100% viewfinder finally?)

No its not stepping up...its pulling things out as long as they can...then adding a cool feature thats not quite there yet...but if the competition comes, they can unlock bits and pieces as slowly as they can that work...no need to give the customer a functioning tool that lets them work as if their isnt a machine there. lol

But hey...this is life at the current time.
Peace

dAlen
 
pango said:
I would not count too much on strong jello in the 5D II. The lack of manual controls of shutter speed, fixed 30p, no RAW, handling, all that, but the rolling shutter looks actually quite OK.
Click to expand...

We'll see...

Jim
 
Is there an actual 1080 clip to download from Canon? It would be interesting to see how much actual detail they're putting into their 1080 container.

The D90 is nowhere near 720P resolution, almost not SD either.

All that's available at this point is a 960x540 compressed QT. Until we can view a small piece of a file straight from the camera at 1080, we can't judge it's true quality.

Jim? Have you seen stuff from the 5D at 1080? Can't wait to see what you guys are cooking up for us!
 
5D II Torture test

5D II Torture test

http://vimeo.com/1815853

I'll leave it to you experts to say if this is rolling-shutter jello, or weird out-of-focus bokeh effects or wide-angle rectilinear lens distortion effects. :clown2:
 
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