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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC Release v7.0.0

Anthony Berenato Jr said:
Hello all to the WC Mount Crew! Last night I wrote a nice e-mail out to info@woodencamera.com and received an e-mail back fairly early this morning. I'm going to share that below, as I feel like this is the proper space and with consideration of informing customers so they know how to plan ahead. I'm posting this with hopes that it will not disrupt any lines between RED and WC within the third-party program, but merely because there are a lot of people asking questions with absolutely no concrete answers... So, I did what Brent mentioned and asked them directly.



That's all I've got. Hopefully it will calm the fire instead of start a new one. I think a $100 board replacement is okay with me (especially considering how much use I've gotten out of my current one), but I'm also a little bummed that RED couldn't keep that bit of code in-tact until that board offering was made by the end of the year... Granted I know that every little bit of old code cutting counts in regards to adding new features to a camera's boards.
Click to expand...


So...

RED has stated in this and other threads (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?161594-DSMC2-RELEASE-CANDIDATE-BUILD-V7-0-0RC4/page2):
"As RED, I cannot speak to what third party modules will or won't work with our system. That is a "them" question, not a "RED" question."
"This has nothing to do with WC on our end. RED updated communication protocols, period. If those changes were not accounted for by ANY third-party manufacturer, then the data would not be assimilated."
"As has been said in other threads, RED is actively working with WC as a member of our Third-Party Hardware Development Program. As to if/when their product will be compatible with our current protocols, that is up for them to state, not us, as it is a WC product we are speaking of here."

Then WC says:
"Start a support ticket at RED.com using the link below to ask for them to enable communication for the Cable-less Battery Module. This would be the quickest and easiest solution as it would only require them to add back a few lines of code to their firmware."

Hmm.
My conclusion: WC is subtly suggesting that the only real solution will be to buy their new PCB (option 2) whenever that is ready.

P.S.: Thank you Anthony for this info!
 
Anthony Berenato Jr said:
Hello all to the WC Mount Crew! Last night I wrote a nice e-mail out to info@woodencamera.com and received an e-mail back fairly early this morning. I'm going to share that below, as I feel like this is the proper space and with consideration of informing customers so they know how to plan ahead. I'm posting this with hopes that it will not disrupt any lines between RED and WC within the third-party program, but merely because there are a lot of people asking questions with absolutely no concrete answers... So, I did what Brent mentioned and asked them directly.



That's all I've got. Hopefully it will calm the fire instead of start a new one. I think a $100 board replacement is okay with me (especially considering how much use I've gotten out of my current one), but I'm also a little bummed that RED couldn't keep that bit of code in-tact until that board offering was made by the end of the year... Granted I know that every little bit of old code cutting counts in regards to adding new features to a camera's boards.
Click to expand...



I have received the same mail.
I just don´t get it why it worked with any prior firmware. There is no change in hardware, I think it would be easy to get this to work, it just seems that it´s not really wanted if we can believe what they wrote us. The communication between those 3rd parties doesn´t seem to be that good.
It´s too bad for us as we are between the lines and just want to work with those products.
So please red, talk to each other on how to get this fixed in the near future that we can use all features of this great camera as it should be. I think there are many people using WC stuff.
Thanks
 
TD Wood said:
Then WC says:
"Start a support ticket at RED.com using the link below to ask for them to enable communication for the Cable-less Battery Module. This would be the quickest and easiest solution as it would only require them to add back a few lines of code to their firmware."
Click to expand...

I don't think that will be the solution of the problem...

$100 for a WC board replacement?! Thank god I have my PAG batteries that show battery percentage.
 
Anthony Berenato Jr said:
Hello all to the WC Mount Crew! Last night I wrote a nice e-mail out to info@woodencamera.com and received an e-mail back fairly early this morning. I'm going to share that below, as I feel like this is the proper space and with consideration of informing customers so they know how to plan ahead. I'm posting this with hopes that it will not disrupt any lines between RED and WC within the third-party program, but merely because there are a lot of people asking questions with absolutely no concrete answers... So, I did what Brent mentioned and asked them directly.



That's all I've got. Hopefully it will calm the fire instead of start a new one. I think a $100 board replacement is okay with me (especially considering how much use I've gotten out of my current one), but I'm also a little bummed that RED couldn't keep that bit of code in-tact until that board offering was made by the end of the year... Granted I know that every little bit of old code cutting counts in regards to adding new features to a camera's boards.
Click to expand...

I don't have much more to say on this topic aside from what I have posted previously (yesterday as well as prior to that). But let me be VERY clear that sending a support ticket to RED will be a complete waste of your time and our time.

But I will reiterate - this is very, very simple. RED improved our communication protocols, among other things in this firmware version. Any third party product who may have reverse engineered our prior protocols would not be supported. The onus would be on that third party to join our Third Party Hardware Development Program to ensure compatibility moving forward. As I have stated, you can see on our Approved Third Party Product page that WC and RED are engaged. Also remember, Third Party RED approval is on a product-by-product basis, not blanket approval on every product a company makes.

It is very frustrating to read "it would only require them to add back a few lines of code to their firmware". As you can imagine, in this IPP2 version of firmware, there is a shit ton of code behind the scenes. Would you guys be okay if we crippled some of that to go back to our prior gen protocols to support a product that is not a RED approved product? That is very myopic.

You cannot praise us for innovating, yet there being shock and dismay when a third-party product RED never approved (ie, including providing our communication protocols) loses functionality.

Marc Baitz said:
I have received the same mail.
I just don´t get it why it worked with any prior firmware. There is no change in hardware, I think it would be easy to get this to work, it just seems that it´s not really wanted if we can believe what they wrote us. The communication between those 3rd parties doesn´t seem to be that good.
It´s too bad for us as we are between the lines and just want to work with those products.
So please red, talk to each other on how to get this fixed in the near future that we can use all features of this great camera as it should be. I think there are many people using WC stuff.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I don't know how many ways/times I can say it is very clear RED and WC are engaged. This is THEIR product, not RED's. If you want a product supported by RED, buy ours or an approved third party product.

I am going to stop now before I say something I will regret later.
 
Brent@RED said:
I am going to stop now before I say something I will regret later.
Click to expand...

Hey, I’m sorry - not my intention. Just trying to be a messenger to offer something concrete to the rest of the WC guys. I’ve mostly stated how I’m okay with a $100 PCB board solution to keep my gear working as intended. I’ve also mentioned that I know every ounce of code space is worth it’s weight in gold.

What I’m not doing is discrediting RED’s innovation, nor am I blaming RED for anything. I think it’s abundantly clear that us consumers only know 10% of anything going on behind-the-scenes... In fact, I doubt anyone here knew that WC “reverse engineered” the power code, and it seems like they’re paying for it now with all the bad juju.

But the biggest reason that I’m bummed is because I bought this gear when Jarred posted about it on Facebook, and I assumed that was a stamp of approval. Here I am eating my own words, and at the end of an argument I really don’t want to be in. I’m patiently waiting for that board upgrade, or considering one of RED’s offerings at this time. I really didn’t want to start any sort of animosity.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153928890610415&id=625665414&_rdr

Either way, I’m still vastly excited for the advancements in v7 and IPP2. Can’t wait for Premiere Pro to embed the new SDK so I can convert a bunch of current projects over to the new color science.
 
Last edited:
Anthony Berenato Jr said:
Hey, I’m sorry - not my intention. Just trying to be a messenger to offer something concrete to the rest of the WC guys. I’ve mostly stated how I’m okay with a $100 PCB board solution to keep my gear working as intended. I’ve also mentioned that I know every ounce of code space is worth it’s weight in gold.

What I’m not doing is discrediting RED’s innovation, nor am I blaming RED for anything. I think it’s abundantly clear that us consumers only know 10% of anything going on behind-the-scenes... In fact, I doubt anyone here knew that WC “reverse engineered” the power code, and it seems like they’re paying for it now with all the bad juju.

But the biggest reason that I’m bummed is because I bought this gear when Jarred posted about it on Facebook, and I assumed that was a stamp of approval. Here I am eating my own words, and at the end of an argument I really don’t want to be in. I’m patiently waiting for that board upgrade, or considering one of RED’s offerings at this time. I really didn’t want to start any sort of animosity.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153928890610415&id=625665414&_rdr
Click to expand...

Hey Anthony, your post can in no way be taken as discrediting RED. On the contrary. It simply helped clarify things after weeks of confusion. Judging by the answer they gave you, it seems pretty clear to me that WC are responsible for this unfortunate issue and, instead of admitting it, have sloppily suggested those two options (when, in fact, it seems the only real solution is buying their upcoming PCB.)
 
Brent@RED said:
It is very frustrating to read "it would only require them to add back a few lines of code to their firmware". As you can imagine, in this IPP2 version of firmware, there is a shit ton of code behind the scenes. Would you guys be okay if we crippled some of that to go back to our prior gen protocols to support a product that is not a RED approved product? That is very myopic.
Click to expand...

As someone who is very involved in software development, it's never as simple as "it's only a few lines of code". It's frankly insulting to the RED Development and QA teams to insinuate that it can be that simple. Also, APIs and protocols change over time. If you reverse-engineer these protocols without the "blessing" of the owner, then you're out of luck when the protocols change. And it's well within RED's right to change those protocols whenever they want, and however they want, especially if the codebase has changed significantly, as with this IPP2 update. If WC's battery plate never had official approval to use the protocols, then it's not fair to blame Red for this. It seems like WC have realized this and are now engaging with RED to certify their products, as you can see that they've already done so with their Easy Top. I've actually had issues with the Pass-Through Top Plate and thinking of getting rid of it and replacing it with the Easy Top, but it's all on me because I chose to not use a RED-approved accessory.
 
Stacey Spears said:
It was released yesterday.
Click to expand...

Golly gosh there's something new floating above your avatar these days and you've seemed to turn all RED. Congrats my friend!
 
Tom Gleeson said:
With the new build I can't seem to change the operating temperature within fan control. If I am in Adaptive Mode and select a temperature more than 38c (say 41c) and then I reboot the camera it defaults back to 38c ? Also if I try to change the operating temperature and then do a black calibration it then names the new calibration 38c rather than the temperature I manually selected. Am I doing it wrong or is this a bug?
Click to expand...

Hey Tom, the temperature control is tied to your sensor's calibration temperature. If you want the target temp default to be something other than what it is currently, perform your calibration once your camera's sensor has reached that temp.

For example, if you want the target temperature to be 41c at boot-up, make sure your currently applied calibration was performed at a sensor temperature at 41c.
 
Anthony, trust me, my frustration is not directed at you. I am simply frustrated over the entire situation and the assumption this is “on RED” to resolve the issue. Note: I am very careful to state that "any third party who reverse engineers...".

TD, agreed, I am hoping there is more clarity moving forward.

Homer, well said, thank you.
 
Yey ! :thumbsup:
Glad it's finally here ! :)

I installed it on my Epic-W, and so far it seems pretty stable and I haven't seen any issues or bugs.

One of the things I wanted in this firmware is the UDF format for the RedMags, which allows recording on a single continuous Prores file instead of many 4 GB chunks. From what I've been testing so far it seems to be working well.
But there was one thing I wanted to try, and which I just tried : letting the camera shut down while recording (from a drained battery for example). The bad news is, the last prores file (the one I was recording when the camera shut down) is corrupted and can't be read on my computer, nor on the camera (the camera just freezes when I try playing the last clip back).
I of course always do my best to avoid doing this, but I know it can happen from time to time if you're recording very long takes and aren't using Red batteries (I use Bebob ones).
So, a few questions regarding this :
- is there a way to recover the corrupted file if that ever happens ? (I don't think Red-undead was made for that purpose, or would that work ? I can see the file, but can't play it back in any app)
- Would it please be possible to add an optional "low battery warning" message ? Like something that displays a clear warning when you reach a certain (ideally user-definable) voltage ? I mean, even on batteries that aren't able to display percentage on Reds, the camera is still able to display the voltage. From what I've seen the camera tends to shut down pretty quickly after it gets bellow 12V. So it should be possible to just display a warning at that point (it doesn't have to be full screen, just something clearly visible on one side of the frame or so)... Would you please consider adding that feature, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would like that too ;)

Thanks !
 
Brent@RED said:
I don't know how many ways/times I can say it is very clear RED and WC are engaged. This is THEIR product, not RED's. If you want a product supported by RED, buy ours or an approved third party product.

I am going to stop now before I say something I will regret later.
Click to expand...

LOL. :banghead::cheers2:

Yes now (because wooden camera) we pay $100 more. How much is Red mount. And even when paying $100 more product puts at risk Red camera ecosystem, being 3rd party product. Thus WC has us by the balls they say. Either trade up or pay to continue both a loss in money one a right choice.
 
Because wooden camera "reverse engineered" product we now pay their incompetence lazy R&D. Never liked them from their videos. Should have not purchased but only GM.
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Yey ! :thumbsup:
Glad it's finally here ! :)

I installed it on my Epic-W, and so far it seems pretty stable and I haven't seen any issues or bugs.

One of the things I wanted in this firmware is the UDF format for the RedMags, which allows recording on a single continuous Prores file instead of many 4 GB chunks. From what I've been testing so far it seems to be working well.
But there was one thing I wanted to try, and which I just tried : letting the camera shut down while recording (from a drained battery for example). The bad news is, the last prores file (the one I was recording when the camera shut down) is corrupted and can't be read on my computer, nor on the camera (the camera just freezes when I try playing the last clip back).
I of course always do my best to avoid doing this, but I know it can happen from time to time if you're recording very long takes and aren't using Red batteries (I use Bebob ones).
So, a few questions regarding this :
- is there a way to recover the corrupted file if that ever happens ? (I don't think Red-undead was made for that purpose, or would that work ? I can see the file, but can't play it back in any app)
- Would it please be possible to add an optional "low battery warning" message ? Like something that displays a clear warning when you reach a certain (ideally user-definable) voltage ? I mean, even on batteries that aren't able to display percentage on Reds, the camera is still able to display the voltage. From what I've seen the camera tends to shut down pretty quickly after it gets bellow 12V. So it should be possible to just display a warning at that point (it doesn't have to be full screen, just something clearly visible on one side of the frame or so)... Would you please consider adding that feature, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would like that too ;)

Thanks !
Click to expand...

+1 for a voltage warning or auto shutdown after writing out recording file, below a user settable minimum voltage feature!

I have experienced camera shutdown when the battery has gotten too low a voltage without warning also. It corrupts the currently recording file and seems to render a unmountable redmag. One solution I have found when you cannot mount the redmag after this low voltage shutdown, is doing a disc repair in apples disk utility. The computer can see the disc even though it does not mount, so it can be repaired. Its a bit scary when you have been doing a long take or have half a days work on one redmag and this happens, because the whole card seems un accessible. The disc repair however allows it to be mountable again. I cannot recall if the last file, ie the one recording while the battery died, was recoverable? but at least it has allowed me to salvage everything else on the card.
 
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