DSMC Leica M Mount

[spaulgal]

Leica glass has a particular fill to it, nor cold nor warm, Sharp, detailed deep and contrasty images always emerge out of pictures taken using Leica glass, this and the fact that they are carefully built
with reduced artifacts, when compared to Canon, Nikon, and even MF glass from Hassy, makes the Leica glass the most desirable in the industry, and reason why people go out of their way to be
able to use them on just about any camera by any Adaptor's means...

Lifetime Leica user -- I agree with this description.
Of course Leica lenses are sharp, but I have always used that description (sharpness) more for Zeiss -- giving Leica the contrast, color, and personality title.

At the end of the day Leica wins.

 

[Yannick Verry]

Extremely interested. I won't buy it right now since i'll need a sensor with no crop factor to use my 35mm and 50mm lenses, but that's a great news.
Thanks RED

 

[Rami Mustakim]

The Official RED DSMC Leica M mount

The mount is finishing testing and should be in the store early December.

Fits both EPIC and Scarlet. Seals for dust and light.

Aluminum version $800.

So nice !!!
Sacrlet-X + Leica M mount.
Really a must have camera for still and motion

AMAZING

 

[Dave Blackham]

We use leicaR, we dont have Leica M yet.

Is there a glass formulation difference between Leica R and M ? and/or any reason why M lenses should produce better images than R every thing else being equal.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Lifetime Leica user -- I agree with this description.
Of course Leica lenses are sharp, but I have always used that description (sharpness) more for Zeiss -- giving Leica the contrast, color, and personality title.

At the end of the day Leica wins.

Yes indeed used to be were Zeiss was the Sharpest glass, but lately we have seen an incredible Sharpness edge to edge on the new Leica glass, especially so on the "S" series and the new "S-C" Primes.

 

[Eric Lange]

Ok I have been Jonesing to use this lens for a long time now, Zeiss biogon T* 2/35 M


Basically a 35mm Biogon with very low distortion (that we need for our work).

It doesn’t look like it has protruding elements so should be fine? See attached link to the data sheet.

BTW it should be noted that through the Leica and Zeiss M’s that the optical layouts tend to alternate between a distigon (shortened retrofocal type) layout and that of a symmetrical type layout that of a Biogon type lens. Both types of optical layouts have strengths and weaknesses. Where possible including MF we try to go for a symmetric lens arrangement. In other words through the respective M lines there are diiferent types of lenses used for both Zeiss M and the Leica M's (worth bearing in mind).

Cheers,

E

Zeiss M 2/35mm

Here is a link to the data sheet showing MTF's E and radial distortion plots etc.

http://applications.zeiss.com/C12578620052CA69/0/8B0311D44FCD838CC125786400471C37/$file/biogon2_35mm_zm_e.pdf


Here is a link to general data sheets that can be downloaded

http://lenses.zeiss.com/photo/en_DE...ta_sheets/current_data_sheets_zeiss_ikon.html

Worth bearing in mind that that in most cases the Zeiss offerings are at least ¼ of the price than most of the Leica offerings. If you are picking a Leica based biogon layout I would say it’s worth checking out the equivalent Zeiss biogon. I would expect the Leica Distagon layouts to have a slight edge over the Zeiss distagon layouts, but you save yourself at least $3K on a lens? Would be happy to do a head to head comparison on the Scarlet-X. Zeiss M vs, Leica M.




[So happy to be engaged in a TECHNICAL discussion close to my heart; I thought that the pre release and post mortem speculation was nearly going to kill me. I’m so happy with the Scarlet-X, its going to make a huge difference to what we are doing, Thank you Team RED and JIM!... (definitely way beyond anything we dared hope for… So the “beyond your wildest dreams…” thing was indeed true in our case. Just thought you might want some concrete feedback on that....]

 

[Chosei Funahara]

We use leicaR, we dont have Leica M yet.

Is there a glass formulation difference between Leica R and M ? and/or any reason why M lenses should produce better images than R every thing else being equal.

Those are historically same lens coating and same lens design, they can match color saturation and produce almost same images, But M lenses has some limitations for Tele side and close-ups.

 

[Imran Farouk]

I beg that at least the 24,35,50,75 and 90 work on this...but I'm assuming 50 and up just like the Spacecam mount, I prefer this over the spacecam one and surprised at how much cheaper this is! its crazy, need to order one of these ASAP

 

[Eric Lange]

QUOTE:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackham
We use leicaR, we dont have Leica M yet.

Is there a glass formulation difference between Leica R and M ? and/or any reason why M lenses should produce better images than R every thing else being equal.
Those are historically same lens coating and same lens design, they can match color saturation and produce almost same images, But M lenses has some limitations for Tele side and close-ups.

EQ:

Chosei Funahara
Those are historically same lens coating and same lens design, they can match color saturation and produce almost same images, But M lenses has some limitations for Tele side and close-ups.



We are working on special precision translation mechanisms (down to +/- 3 micron ..at least) for some of the M based lenses. So you can get a really good close up/macro(ish) shots using a wide angle lens that have a very low radial distortion. I.e. we can very precisely position the lens without having to rely on the Helicoids to do the job for you. Basically for close up work you need very much longer travel that you can’t be mechanically build into the form factor of a regular M.

A leica R lens basically being retrofocal for shorter focal lengths 50mm ish on down will typically have greater or near to 2% radial distortion. A biogon type M layout will typically will have much less radial distortion but have slightly less contrast at the edges. Schneider on the other hand do have some amazing Digitar lenses that are biogon/symmetric layout that have astounding contrast and sharpness across the whole field of view. These other options would save one many thousands of dollars but like everyone else we would love to find an excuse to use Leica glass. Put in sales enquirey to band pro on those Leica primes.

 

[Eric Lange]

I beg that at least the 24,35,50,75 and 90 work on this...but I'm assuming 50 and up just like the Spacecam mount, I prefer this over the spacecam one and surprised at how much cheaper this is! its crazy, need to order one of these ASAP

What is the spacecam one like?

I have only seen picture.

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Steven Dean]

Ok I have been Jonesing to use this lens for a long time now, Zeiss biogon T* 2/35 M


Basically a 35mm Biogon with very low distortion (that we need for our work).

It doesn’t look like it has protruding elements so should be fine? See attached link to the data sheet.

BTW it should be noted that through the Leica and Zeiss M’s that the optical layouts tend to alternate between a distigon (shortened retrofocal type) layout and that of a symmetrical type layout that of a Biogon type lens. Both types of optical layouts have strengths and weaknesses. Where possible including MF we try to go for a symmetric lens arrangement. In other words through the respective M lines there are diiferent types of lenses used for both Zeiss M and the Leica M's (worth bearing in mind).

Cheers,

E

Zeiss M 2/35mm

Here is a link to the data sheet showing MTF's E and radial distortion plots etc.

http://applications.zeiss.com/C12578620052CA69/0/8B0311D44FCD838CC125786400471C37/$file/biogon2_35mm_zm_e.pdf


Here is a link to general data sheets that can be downloaded

http://lenses.zeiss.com/photo/en_DE...ta_sheets/current_data_sheets_zeiss_ikon.html

Worth bearing in mind that that in most cases the Zeiss offerings are at least ¼ of the price than most of the Leica offerings. If you are picking a Leica based biogon layout I would say it’s worth checking out the equivalent Zeiss biogon. I would expect the Leica Distagon layouts to have a slight edge over the Zeiss distagon layouts, but you save yourself at least $3K on a lens? Would be happy to do a head to head comparison on the Scarlet-X. Zeiss M vs, Leica M.




[So happy to be engaged in a TECHNICAL discussion close to my heart; I thought that the pre release and post mortem speculation was nearly going to kill me. I’m so happy with the Scarlet-X, its going to make a huge difference to what we are doing, Thank you Team RED and JIM!... (definitely way beyond anything we dared hope for… So the “beyond your wildest dreams…” thing was indeed true in our case. Just thought you might want some concrete feedback on that....]

Looks promising, thanks for the heads up on that lens!

(Edit) actually upon further review, it does look like it has a protruding element. I saw one photo where it looked like it didn't and got all excited, but most others show a protruding element.

 

[Chosei Funahara]

Thanks Jarred for unbanning me and I'm back now.

Also thank you all RedUser guys for your support to get me back here.

Immediately must say that I very excited about that Leica M mount for Epic M+X and Scarlet X.

Then must add that I'm trilled with Scarlet X specs and prices and will order a package as soon my bank get green light after all that European Debt Crisis mess...

As Jarred mentioned above professional photographer like Mark Read from Pier 59 desperately wanted to have opportunity to work with high quality Leica M glass.

Keep in mind that Carl Zeiss and Voigtländer Cosina both have very attractive sets of Leica M lenses (called Carl Zeiss ZM Lenses) and Voigtländer Cosina Rangefinder.

My suggestion about Leica M for Epic you can read here at this tread>>>

Hopefully Dragon sensor upgrade will come approximatelly in time frame 9 to 12 months from now

that means RED could solve that kind of intruding lens back issue of wider Leica M lenses with the new redesign of sensor's front hole (maybe my terminology here is wrong)...

Sanjin-san, Welcome back, we all miss your presence, many people did not know that you are banned, but hey, now you are the official Leica M lens specialist for Epic/Scarlet on RedUser.net...

 

[Imran Farouk]

What is the spacecam one like?

I have only seen picture.

Thanks,

Eric

Well I ordered the SpaceCam one but I'm going to pull back on that simply because I'm assuming this locking system looks to be pretty damn elegant,

I wish I could speak from experience but its just from the pictures which doesn't count for a lot...

Given I trust REDs quality and customer service above most other companies...

 

[Eric Lange]

Well I ordered the SpaceCam one but I'm going to pull back on that simply because I'm assuming this locking system looks to be pretty damn elegant,

I wish I could speak from experience but its just from the pictures which doesn't count for a lot...

Given I trust REDs quality and customer service above most other companies...

Don’t worry I’ll check them both out. I would expect the spacecam mounts to have a high degree of thermal stability and compatibility and good repeatability due to the fact they are doing Aerial S-3d.

Would be good to compare.

Will find out in good time.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Eric Lange]

Sanjin-san, Welcome back, we all miss your presence, many people did not know that you are banned, but hey, now you are the official Leica M lens specialist for Epic/Scarlet on RedUser.net...

I have to admit I have always wanted to bear witness to the lead up of whatever tirade that Sanjin brings fourth to REDUSER to get himself banned? Viennese style ultra snarkyness sounds like fun… (maybe others would disagree) but never the less an obviously valuable member of REDUSER.

E

 

[Christopher Barrett]

I have a Leica R 28-70 that I'm pretty damn fond of and will throw on the Epic when my Canon mount arrives. As for the differences in the M and R lines, I have a couple thoughts. Maybe our resident Leica expert will weigh in if there are any inaccuracies.

One of the things that makes rangefinder images so incredible is that the lenses can by of symmetrical design. When you have to introduce a mirror between the lens and the image plane (as in SLR camera bodies) you have to redesign the lens to make room. This lens design is called "retro-focus" and it introduces some compromises in image quality. Lens design has become highly advanced and many retro-focus lenses rival their symmetrical cousins but generally speaking a symmetrical lens will have less distortion and greater edge to edge sharpness than a retro-focus design. Because of this, I would assume that the M glass outperforms the R glass. Given that Leica's M lenses will continue to be refined throughout the years while the R lenses have reached an end of the line, the difference in quality is only going to grow greater and greater.

I'm in a quandry, myself. I have the Panchros, which I love. I have my 17mm and 24mm TS-E's and I will probably add Schneider's new Canon mount T/S 50 and 90. Beyond that, I'd like to have a lightweight set of fast lenses and the L series is probably the ticket. Still, I can't help wondering about some Leica glass.... heh heh.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Most welcome Jesper, I'm sure now that Sanjin is back I'll also fill you in deeply on the M Leica glass better then I... Welcome back Sanjin...

Sanjin-san, Welcome back, we all miss your presence, many people did not know that you are banned, but hey, now you are the official Leica M lens specialist for Epic/Scarlet on RedUser.net...

Thanks Ketch and Chosei, I'm finally back again here at the forum...

At the moment I'm working to fix my Leica R to Leica M adapter (22228/500934) originally made by Leitz.

Curiosity that I orderers that mount a couple months ago from KEH Camera in Los Angeles, California.

It needs to be existing mount ring with an original Leica R ring from any type of old Leca R camera.

Then it will work.

What does it mean?

It means that I would be able to swap limited edition of Leica M lenses on my soon to be ordered Scarlet-X

like everybody else who will get the original RED Epic/Scarlet Leica M mount

BUT would be able to swap also all Leica R lenses using just one mount and one M to R adapter.

And with that would be able to have a wide range of Leica still lenses that starts

with focal length of 15mm and until 800mm.

Sounds terrific!!!!

Of course I don't have all those lenses but have something as a nice start up and will extend my Leica M and R lens stock in the future.

 

[Mattias D. Valenca]

Fantastic news! I've been looking at the one that's being offered by Spacecam, but it feels great that RED is releasing one of their own! Can't wait to see the footage produced by my Summilux f1.4 on the new Scarlet-X...

 

[Eric Lange]

The fantastic thing is that ZEISS, LEICA AND SCHNEIDER PUBLISH COMPLETE DATA SHEETS ON THESE LENSES.

I actually need to make a very detailed comparison of all of these lenses. I have been examining the different aspects of these lenses for at least six years. Working in photogrammetry for over 20 years I have very good handle on the design characteristics of symetric lenses. So from the data and some testing I/we should be able to pull together a pretty comprehensive table as there will be some interesting complexities and aspects that will snake in and out of each other. So the individual lines are more complex and sweeping generalizations don’t quite fit, you have compare specific lens to specific lens.

This may take a bit of time but will post or publish time willing at least an initial overview.

Don’t forget Schneider in their ranges there have some AMAZING lenses that are not too expensive either.

Ta for now.

Eric

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Great news! I wonder if the rear element of those like the 24 or 35mm Summilux can be shaved down in order to fit the Epic. Obviously this voids warranty and is dangerous, but I think I remember Shane Hurlbut doing this on certain focal lengths of R lenses in order to fit them on the 5D. Something to think about ....