DSLR-killer...

[Mario Langone]

i guess I'm hoping that we will get some confirmation of whether or not Red will release a product specifically aimed at the DSLR market....before I jump ship and buy my next camera.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

i guess I'm hoping that we will get some confirmation of whether or not Red will release a product specifically aimed at the DSLR market....before I jump ship and buy my next camera.

I think that several of the 3 trillion combinations of the Epic/Scarlet system will be aimed at the DSLR market!

It might be in Red's best interest to offer a few ready-to-go packages with a kit lens for the less technical.

 

[Daniel Browning]

I haven't seen a red EVF (and from the looks of it, I never will) but the EVFs I've tried are slow, and worse by far in low-light than my OVFs. I've been shooting pictures of satellites in low-Earth-orbit through an f15 optical train. I have no difficulty focusing and tracking with an OVF on these dim objects, but with an EVF, all I get is noise - no hint of the object at all - through the same optical train.

Technology has moved beyond whatever you used. EVF allow for longer exposures and 200% magnification that make critical focus on static objects a snap. That's why live view on the 20Da was such a big deal for astrophotographers.

 

[Lee Jay]

Longer exposures are not an acceptable solution in most cases. In fact, I need shorter. The lag (latency) is already too much on EVFs unless you are shooting static subjects. Live view is nice for manual focus. Accurate, fast, predictive autofocus is nicer yet (and a minimum requirement for most dSLR shooters including me).

 

[Daniel Browning]

Longer exposures are not an acceptable solution in most cases. In fact, I need shorter. The lag (latency) is already too much on EVFs unless you are shooting static subjects. Live view is nice for manual focus.

Good point. In still mode there will be improvements as technology marches forward, but for motion it will be probably be limited by the desired frame rate (e.g. 24 FPS), unless it were to ramp up on every frame.

Accurate, fast, predictive autofocus is nicer yet (and a minimum requirement for most dSLR shooters including me).

Me too.

 

[Tim H.]

If you need high quality stills *and* motion, RED is the only game in town. All the other guys compromise motion quality severely (understatement).
.

So you have a photo shoot booked with GQ magazine and you are shooting several models on location with 3 to 4 strobes and you need to fire these strobes from the camera. How will you do this with your DSLR Killer? Does it have a sync output? Does it have a mirror? Does it support pocket wizards?

It's great that you will defend your Red to the death but why not try to see the reality of the situation? This is not a DSLR killer on any level. The new Scarlet and Epic models might make for great cinematic "movie" cameras but lets not try and make them something they are not. Lets be honest that Jim should never have said "DSLR Killer" and doesn't it kinda make you doubt Red a little when they over reach with marketing words like that? I'm all for standing behind a company like Red but I don't want to back hype.

So am I going to get a Canon 5D MK2 to shoot my next cinematic epic? Well guess it depends on the budget but obviously Peter Jackson isn't. Is Jill Greenberg (http://www.manipulator.com/) going to buy an Epic or Scarlet to shoot her next photo shoot? NO.

To sit here and say that these cameras are better than any DSLR out there is just like us saying Canon and Nikon DSLR's shoot better high rez video than the Epic or Scarlet.

Jim - I think you should retract/modify that statement, it's generating way more bad press than good press.

 

[Jarred Land]

FullRez.. you are jumping to alot of conclusions.....

I would recommend in the future that you wait to see how big the dog is before you blindly kick it....

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

FullRez.. you are jumping to alot of conclusions.....

I would recommend in the future that you wait to see how big the dog is before you blindly kick it....

Hmmmmm, interesting????

 

[Lee Jay]

FullRez.. you are jumping to alot of conclusions.....

I would recommend in the future that you wait to see how big the dog is before you blindly kick it....

Is one of these the DSMC or not? Jim pretty much said the DSMC would be announced today in the DSMC forum, so it seems safe to assume that he meant one of the cameras announced today. If it hasn't been announced, then say so.

EDIT: here's the post I mentioned:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=309508#post309508

 

[Steve Gal]

aren't they all dsmc's?

 

[Jason Ing]

So you have a photo shoot booked with GQ magazine and you are shooting several models on location with 3 to 4 strobes and you need to fire these strobes from the camera. How will you do this with your DSLR Killer? Does it have a sync output? Does it have a mirror? Does it support pocket wizards?

LOL! That's your measly list that disqualifies it from being a DSLR killer and you want Jim to recant? LOL.

Let's see... Jim, with a team of engineers, programmers, and foot soldiers... and don't forget his trusty commando Jarred... advances sensor technology, creates Redcode, improves it in mere months, envisions, designs, and constructs a now proven state-of-the-art high-end digital cinema camera in mere years...

... and what the fuck?!! They can't figure out STROBE technology? And to make it more complicated... FOUR of them? And In-Sync too?! (not the band, Full-Rez)

Those talent-less, stupid losers at Red... they'll never figure out and make that happen.

I mean... come on... all that electronics and syncing and lights and code and technology and... shit... forget about it.

The achilles heel.... revealed.

Imagine that.

Jim & Red company taken down...

... by 4 bulbs and a wire.

What a shame.

Rest In Peace, you guys.

We all loved you while it lasted.

:waaa:

 

[Fran Kuhn]

I think we have to look at the term dslr killer from a filmmaker's standpoint. All of these new options definitively KILL my need for an additional still photographer on my shoots - I no longer need another guy to come along to get me hi-res still with the same "look" as the video. Now every frame is a "DSLR shot" that I can send to an art department or use in a print publication.

I know the frame grabs will often have more motion blur (1/48th) than I'd like having a dedicated still photog on a job, but wow! Find a good frame and run with it.

If you need more than that, well, hire out a stills guy like you did before.

Hi Carl,

The ability to grab still frames from motion is nothing new, you can do it with a 60 year-old Eyemo if you'd like.

Clients on my film shoots have tried many times to take a frame shot on an Arri 435 and use it for print. Most of the time it doesn't work, ask any creative at a big agency.

Dedicated still cameras (and photographers) exist for good reason.

-Fran

 

[Jason Ing]

Some people think they can do both at the same time.

Just change the shutter speed.

One speed for motion cinema.

Another speed for continuous shooting still photography.

 

[Jason Ing]

Just curious... my foreign language skills sucks...

... does "Rez" mean like... "of shit" in German or French or something?

 

[Tim H.]

LOL! That's your measly list that disqualifies it from being a DSLR killer and you want Jim to recant? LOL.

Let's see... Jim, with a team of engineers, programmers, and foot soldiers... and don't forget his trusty commando Jarred... advances sensor technology, creates Redcode, improves it in mere months, envisions, designs, and constructs a now proven state-of-the-art high-end digital cinema camera in mere years...

... and what the fuck?!! They can't figure out STROBE technology? And to make it more complicated... FOUR of them? And In-Sync too?! (not the band, Full-Rez)

Those talent-less, stupid losers at Red... they'll never figure out and make that happen.

I mean... come on... all that electronics and syncing and lights and code and technology and... shit... forget about it.

The achilles heel.... revealed.

Imagine that.

Jim & Red company taken down...

... by 4 bulbs and a wire.

What a shame.

Rest In Peace, you guys.

We all loved you while it lasted.

:waaa:

Ok Fanboy!!! Go Get Em' Tiger!

Seriously? You think this comes down to 4 bulbs and a wire? You probably have no idea what a DSLR is used for in the REAL world and based on the information provided today have any clue how the new Red Cameras would apply to it. Are you that insecure or willing to defend anything regardless of its merit simply because who are in love with it?

How does blindly bowing down to Red as a company help you? Is Jim going to give you a free camera if you are nice enough and follow him everywhere? Maybe you should try questioning them as a company so that you can help them to improve their product and push them to deliver more to us the consumer. It's amazing how people in these forums turn so negative and personal when you have a different opinion of something.

I will bet you anything you want dude that these cameras as they were announced today will not KILL the big DSLR makers.

 

[Tim H.]

FullRez.. you are jumping to alot of conclusions.....

I would recommend in the future that you wait to see how big the dog is before you blindly kick it....

Jarred - Much respect man. I've followed you since the DVX days and I mean no harm.

I'm simply saying that based on the info released today this is not a DSLR killer and there are plenty of rumblings around the net about how much of an over statement that was. So I'm just pointing it out.

Never said it can't/won't change but I'd hate to see a simple "Killer" comment cast a negative cloud over Red.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm wondering who is the insecure one here... FullRez, you're over reacting I think. We don't even have all the specs of these new cameras yet. As Jarred says, you're jumping to a lot of conclusions and you seem to be getting quite agitated over this.

Additionally, we have to look at the "killer" in the context of these new cameras. Nikon, Canon and others are pushing the DSLR market into the video market and they are targeting professionals with this. In that respect, these newly announce offerings are indeed DSLR "killers" if we look at the cameras competing across their entire feature sets.

But I agree with you, that if I just want to shoot stills, I'd go buy a 5D2 or a D3/ D700.

 

[Jason Ing]

...and based on the information provided today...

You said it yourself.

You're basing everything on the information provided today.

Yup, no further specs, designs, improvements, etc. etc. will be coming because Red provided all the information and I didn't just read that Jim will be working on some charts over the next few days. They all just stopped working.

They've all gone to Fiji.

Red never improves upon anything... those lazy bastards.

 

[Fran Kuhn]

Some people think they can do both at the same time.

Just change the shutter speed.

One speed for motion cinema.

Another speed for continuous shooting still photography.

Hi Jason,

You're right. It's just that many people here think they'll be able to shoot for both stills and motion at the same time. Sure, it can sometimes be done, but it's not something I'd like to rely on for any important shoot.

My first post on REDuser was a reply to some guy here who was rejoicing at the thought of selling his Arriflex SR3 and Nikon and having one do-it-all camera, that from now on everything--stills and motion--could be shot in one take. And a wedding photographer who thought he'd be able to ditch his partner with the video camera because he'd simply pull all of the stills from his Scarlet video.

To me this illustrates the level of misunderstanding about some very basic aspects of photography and cinematography by many of the posters on this board. Not to mention misunderstanding the business in general.

-Fran

http://www.frankuhn.com

 

[Jason Ing]

You're right. There's a diverse group here. But what's great is the sharing and cross-over of knowledge, I think.

Nice shots on your site, by the way.