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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSLR-killer...

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Yeah, as much as I'm excited about the new stuff, my wife, who does the still photography isn't so much. I was hoping the DSMC would let her appreciate RED as much as I do... Sadly, at even $7k (which is amazing for video), I think she'll be sticking with the Canon and Nikon SLR's that also shoot video, at 1/3 the price.

I guess I'll continue to revel in my REDness all by myself.
 
wow. I was expecting full frame 35mm DSLR-killer under $3000 .Well, They did make a killer price that I can't afford.:shiftyph34r:
 
And if the D90 and 5D2 video stood up to the kind of big screen (and little screen) scrutiny that RED One footage does, I might be tempted to agree with you. When people see the Canon and Nikon footage, they see the DOF and the glass, but the image itself is just not that good....

Graeme (with is obviously biassed hat on)
 
I'm better at multi-tasking than multi-casking.

Graeme
 
With what I've seen so far, I am not surprise if somewhere, there might be a RED "competitor" lurking in the dark and secretly working on:

a 3K camera will be codename "Violet"
a 4K camera will be codename "Blue"
a 5K & beyond will be codename "History" ... *chuckle*

I still couldn't digest the new pictures and information. Too much too handle for now... (need my sleeping pills!)

Well done to the RED team and hope to see you guys in NAB 2009.

p/s I was at NAB 2007 and gave up on the long queue :(
 
Looks like all of this is out of my price range.

The equivalent of my 4/3 gear (or APS-C) would be the Scarlet S35 at $7000 brain only.

Except for the Scarlet 5MP, Red seem to have gone the 'Canon' route of maximum megapixels, rather than the Nikon D3/D700 maximum ISO.

One thing I do NOT see is any kind of flash hot-shoe. But then, flash is anathema to movie folk. More than once I've been asked by movie guys to hold off on using flash during a take. If I can't use flash, then I need ISO 6400 or better.

They offer AF lenses -- but what's the auto-focus mechanism? Must be contrast?

I don't see prices on the new LCD/EVF .. the original Red EVF is $2950. What's the price/spec on a BombEVF?

And the Fixed-lens 2/3 Scarlet is a rather pricey replacement for my KM A2 !
 
2/3 fixed lens seems fine to me, but will there a "fixed" audio option onboard? Would be great for "shoot-and-run" documentaries ;)
 
Lee Jay said:
What have I missed here? Jim called this a "DSLR killer" while the reality seems to be that is has absolutely nothing to offer to dSLR shooters in the way of increased performance or flexibility, while costing around 10 times more.
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I agree completely with you. A great tool for cinema, not for photography. DSLR killer? Not at all. Besides the price (I'm talking about Scarlet FF35), the main point for me is that 5.2" + EVF height, and around 3 lbs only the "brain" is way BIGGER than I expected, and unuseful for someone who uses to move always with his camera, like I do (not to mention shooting unnoticed, which is virtually impossible). It has 5K, yes, but it's much more than I (and I think almost everyone) need. In addition, I'd love to have the slow motion possibility, but it's only 30 fps, unless I go for the EPIC which is... $35000!!. Something like 2K, 100fps and a smaller base would have been perfect to me... Sorry Jim, you've done a great job to make an amazing cinema cam, but you talked about DSLR killer and as a professional photographer I was waiting for a good replace to Canon and Nikon... And this is not.
 
ultrastatic said:
I think Scarlet and Epic are fantastic movie cameras, and, of course, have the capability of shooting single frames. In no way are they DSLR killers for all the reasons Lee Jay mentioned above.

I think Red will announce another member of the DSMC family in a few months, and that one will be the true DSLR killer. There is always hope!
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I hope too...
 
Spiff said:
I think if you were looking for a serious "video" camera (I guess "motion" is the word now), you'd be thinking a lot differently.
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Nobody doubts of Scarlet and Epic as serious motion cameras, but remember we are talking about "DSLR killers"
 
I think we have to look at the term dslr killer from a filmmaker's standpoint. All of these new options definitively KILL my need for an additional still photographer on my shoots - I no longer need another guy to come along to get me hi-res still with the same "look" as the video. Now every frame is a "DSLR shot" that I can send to an art department or use in a print publication.

I know the frame grabs will often have more motion blur (1/48th) than I'd like having a dedicated still photog on a job, but wow! Find a good frame and run with it.

If you need more than that, well, hire out a stills guy like you did before.
 
I'm still leaning toward a Canon 5D Mark II... I want something lightweight that uses my 35mm lenses. I'm kinda sad that Scarlet was not the answer.. but then Mr. Jannard may be right in not trying to compete with Canon and Nikon on the "lower" level of DSLRs that "also" shoot video.

~Sarah
 
Graeme Nattress said:
And if the D90 and 5D2 video stood up to the kind of big screen (and little screen) scrutiny that RED One footage does, I might be tempted to agree with you. When people see the Canon and Nikon footage, they see the DOF and the glass, but the image itself is just not that good....

Graeme (with is obviously biassed hat on)
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"DSLR killer" means stills, not video, as DSLRs are for shooting stills. The 5DII produces better video than any consumer camcorder or P&S with video mode, and considering that I took 22,000 stills and 18 minutes of video (640x480x30p) in the last year, that would be far more than sufficient. The stills I get from my 5D are plenty outstanding from an image quality point of view, even printed quite large.

Scarlet/EPIC are no more DSLR killers than an IMAX camera was a 35mm film SLR killer. From the point of view of a stills shooter, they are bulky, over-priced kludges lacking crucial features (like lens support, autofocus, and viewfinders) that serious stills-shooters require. I'm a bit shocked that RED thought any of these cameras would be remotely competitive in a dSLR space dominated by $700-$2000 cameras packed with features and lens systems the new REDs lack entirely. These are professional motion picture cameras that can also produce decent stills, just like the 5DII is a professional stills camera than can also produce decent video. One doesn't really compete with the other at all. No one is going to shoot a feature film or TV show or commercial with the 5DII, and no one is going to shoot sports or weddings or portraits with a RED.
 
Another unanswered question is --- are Scarlet/Epic the planned DSLR killer(s)?

They are clearly movie cameras with (as yet unexplained) still modes.

Or is the DSLR-killer still in the design pipeline ... a Still camera with Movie mode?
 
alanf said:
Another unanswered question is --- are Scarlet/Epic the planned DSLR killer(s)?

They are clearly movie cameras with (as yet unexplained) still modes.

Or is the DSLR-killer still in the design pipeline ... a Still camera with Movie mode?
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I don't think so. A true dSLR killer with RED One quality video would be a Scarlet and Epic killer as well. Think of it as a Scarlet FF35 with grip, viewfinder, mount and battery integrated into a 2 pound ergonomic system for under $3000. Not going to happen from RED any time soon if ever. We're much more likely to get a dSLR from Canon, Nikon or Sony that meets all those specs and can deliver high quality video too. Heck, we're almost there now.
 
Lee Jay said:
From the point of view of a stills shooter, they are bulky, over-priced kludges lacking crucial features (like lens support, autofocus, and viewfinders) that serious stills-shooters require.
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The specs say that the FF35 cameras support Canon, Nikon, and the new RED FF35 lenses. And it supports autofocus for the RED FF35 lenses at least. Personally, I am very disappointed with the performance of optical viewfinders compared to RED's. They do not show the true depth of field (f/1.2 is shown as f/3.5 in the OVF) and aren't useful in low light. This makes it much harder to focus than an EVF.

If you need high quality stills *and* motion, RED is the only game in town. All the other guys compromise motion quality severely (understatement).

If you only need stills and junky video, like you said, then you can save money with the other guys.
 
and camera with fixed lens?I don't know which market they are targeting . point and shoot user?
 
Daniel Browning said:
The specs say that the FF35 cameras support Canon, Nikon, and the new RED FF35 lenses. And it supports autofocus for the RED FF35 lenses at least. Personally, I am very disappointed with the performance of optical viewfinders compared to RED's. They do not show the true depth of field (f/1.2 is shown as f/3.5 in the OVF) and aren't useful in low light. This makes it much harder to focus than an EVF.
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I haven't seen a red EVF (and from the looks of it, I never will) but the EVFs I've tried are slow, and worse by far in low-light than my OVFs. I've been shooting pictures of satellites in low-Earth-orbit through an f15 optical train. I have no difficulty focusing and tracking with an OVF on these dim objects, but with an EVF, all I get is noise - no hint of the object at all - through the same optical train.

Having a Canon or Nikon mount that doesn't autofocus *at least* as good as the Canon and Nikon bodies does, and also activates and supports IS and aperture control is less than useful. One of the largest and most useful advances in modern SLRs over my old manual film cameras is fast and accurate AI servo (predictive autofocus). It's a feature I wouldn't live without anymore, and it's on even the cheapest dSLRs that cost $700 with two lenses.

I have no problem with the video people liking these things (I know little about the pro video industry so I can't judge if these are good deals or not) but to call these devices DSLR-killers is just disingenuous as far as I can tell, as they don't even compete in the same space. No wedding shooter is going to go out and buy two FF35 or even S35 Scarlet systems for each shooter at a wedding. Is there even a TTL-compatible hot shoe available?
 
By the way, it's not just the cost and lack of features, it's also the size and weight. How would you like to carry two fully-outfitted systems with "brains", grips, batteries, mounts, finders and lenses around your neck for 7 straight hours, with extra batteries, lenses and flashes in your vest the whole time?
 
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