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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon with no OLPF

Les Dittert said:
Since this is kind-of an OLPF thread, let me answer:
...
It's by belief that the OLPF spread of the MX was chosen to be ultra conservative and will never make debayer color mistakes ...
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Thanks for your comprehensible and competent explanation. I learn a lot out of this discussion. What I understood is that the OLPF blurres the image on the sensor such that even the smallest objects by shure cover all 3 colors of the Bayer matrix. The result would then be a reduction of the resolution by a factor of 2 (times2) . This would totally explain my experiences. Even when the debayering algorithm can reconstruct a more or less small amount of resolution.

Btw I got inspired by this discussion to my avatar :smile5:
 
Les Dittert said:
When you shot your Epic test with no OLPF, what were you cutting the IR with ?
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Nothing. Just took the olpf off and shot. So probably I had to use an IR filter!? Makes sense. Especially as the shots were under the bright Florida sun. Did you had an IR filter? that must had cut some good amount of light but it does not look like.

Phil said in a previous tread that the Dragon does not need an IR filter any more. Is it perhaps because the olpf takes care of that or some other factor. If it's some other factor then a non olpf Dragon will work fine theoretically.
 
My post #77 mentioned the IR filter and what happens if you don't use one.

Lakis Amarantithis said:
Nothing. Just took the olpf off and shot. So probably I had to use an IR filter!? Makes sense. Especially as the shots were under the bright Florida sun. Did you had an IR filter? that must had cut some good amount of light but it does not look like.

Phil said in a previous tread that the Dragon does not need an IR filter any more. Is it perhaps because the olpf takes care of that or some other factor. If it's some other factor then a non olpf Dragon will work fine theoretically.
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Lakis, I am so curious to see first results when you try out your cam without OLPF and with IR filter.
 
I just found an information from NIKON. They use the software Capture NX2 with a moiré-reduction tool for their D800E which has no OLPF Function in front of the sensor. I wonder what this tool is doing.
 
Juergen Schloss said:
Lakis, I am so curious to see first results when you try out your cam without OLPF and with IR filter.
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Of course, I'll be happy to share Juergen IF I decide to take off the olpf, I like better someone else or someone from the RED to do that instead and post some samples here. My main concern is dust in the processor. I had problems with other cameras and lenses and is a pain to clean it. Ebay is great by the way to buy tiffen ir's with a 70% discount! Thanks Les!

I think in the future when people start changing to other olpf's often this might be a big one.

My only concern now is how to address this issue:

(from post #77 of Les)
>>1> The camera needs some glass in there in place of the OLPF to maintain backfocus. It is so far off without it that you can't focus on much at all.

I have no idea what else can be put there.
 
This topic was mentioned briefly in the swappable OLPF thread. Both John Marchant and I believe that in order to maintain proper focus response you would need a piece of glass (optical flat perhaps) rather than air in that position in the optical path. He also noted that an anti-reflectivity coating might be needed to avoid internal reflection problems, which makes sense to me. Perhaps RED can be convinced to make a swappable OLPF that's really just a bit of clear glass with an anti-reflective coating as an option.

Hope this isn't a threadjack, just sharing info.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
This topic was mentioned briefly in the swappable OLPF thread. Both John Marchant and I believe that in order to maintain proper focus response you would need a piece of glass (optical flat perhaps) rather than air in that position in the optical path. He also noted that an anti-reflectivity coating might be needed to avoid internal reflection problems, which makes sense to me. Perhaps RED can be convinced to make a swappable OLPF that's really just a bit of clear glass with an anti-reflective coating as an option.

Hope this isn't a threadjack, just sharing info.

Cheers - #19
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Jarred has already said they will be making a clear olpf as well...
 
Yes, I did not noticed any clear as well.

I would love to see a simple plain one.

From some tests I've done I think it would be Fantastic.

I would buy all of them x2 but I also like to have the freedom to put the IR filters that I want (like these just to use an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/77mm-Zomei-...er-/121314857927?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120 ) and control the picture as I specifically want it. Another reason is Fantastic light sensitivity. I'm talking an 800mm lens with Noctilux abilities from what I tested. It's shocking. Imagine using Noctilux with 1 candle and have to put ND...
But the benefits are a lot more.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I saw some IR pass versions for color and monochrome, but not IR cut with no low pass filtering or clear - must have missed that. Thanks for the update Matt.

Cheers - #19
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Lakis Amarantithis said:
Yes, I did not noticed any clear as well.

I would love to see a simple plain one.

From some tests I've done I think it would be Fantastic.

I would buy all of them x2 but I also like to have the freedom to put the IR filters that I want (like these just to use an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/77mm-Zomei-...er-/121314857927?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120 ) and control the picture as I specifically want it. Another reason is Fantastic light sensitivity. I'm talking an 800mm lens with Noctilux abilities from what I tested. It's shocking. Imagine using Noctilux with 1 candle and have to put ND...
But the benefits are a lot more.
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From Jarred in an earlier thread (The last line states there will be a Clear olpf):
Jarred Land said:
Just thought I would give people a sneak peek on the Modular OLPF thats going to be available for Dragon soon.

There still people that prefer the old OLPF because even though skintones and highlight protection isn't as good as the new OLPF, they want a noise free image at higher ISOs that the old OLPF gives you by letting in more light. We of course will put whichever OLPF you want in your camera now... but the new OLPF module will make things alot easier to change.

The freedom and flexibility to make that kind of decision in different environments should be beneficial to everyone.. even if they only make the choice once and never change it again.

The Module install is pretty straight forward... we can do it or you can do it. Getting the old stuff out is the hardest part. The new "module" goes in easy and 4 little bolts and you are done. You dont need to touch any glass and you dont need to worry about putting it upside down or right side left. The front of the module is marked so you can see which one it is by just looking at the sensor so rental customers can quickly see which one is in camera.

At any rate... we are testing prototypes now and I expect these to be ready in 6-8 weeks after we get out of tooling. The OLPF Modules will be for sale in the store so you can choose whichever one you want or all of them and change at will. If you want to keep whatever OLPF you have in your camera right now you can still send us your camera and we can transfer your OLPF into a new module and send it back to you.

There will be 2 modules available out of the gate obviously ( The new OLPF and the OLD OLPF ) and IR PASS, ND, Clear and a few specialty ones will come after.

1406205543.jpg
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stewart addison said:
Hmm, interesting! I might try our Dragon without the OLPF!
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It will not work... You need glass in there or your backfocus will be way off and unable to achieve infinity focus...
 
May be I am wrong with my impression about RED's new strategy with OLPF, which is really great in my opinion. But I understand it does not help us getting high res footage with the first set of OLPFs that were announced by Jarred.

Or can the "Monochrome: Standard Monochrome OLPF" help us? (or is it a silly idea?) My thought is: it is optimized for the higher resolution of the Monochrome dragon and eventually it can also be used for the Bayer Dragon (with reduced anti aliasing).
 
Matt Ryan said:
It will not work... You need glass in there or your backfocus will be way off and unable to achieve infinity focus...
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Why? Neither Film nor still cameras have OLPFs. If anything RED's OLPF should be throwing old lenses out of focus no?
 
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