Dragon upgrades

[Justin Chin]

As I follow the lead up to NAB, I'm seeing more and more how the evolution of RED cameras and their commitment to their customers have been proven. I wouldn't call myself a fanboy, but I love the camera. And as I tend to do, with the run up on updating gear I've started a spreadsheet to figure out what value I have in the gear that I own and will want to upgrade. I've been so entrenched as an original RED ONE owner that sometimes I don't even know what RED cameras cost nowadays and just looking at the current costs and tracking previous costs it surprised me to see that the Dragon body is listed at 29K. For original owners who've followed the upgrade path, that's has been a great boon.

I can't forget that the Epic upgrade included 7k worth of accessories FOR FREE.

SERIOUSLY - THAT WAS WORTH IT RIGHT THERE.

I'm just hoping some projects come through this year so I can just by another RED camera and just work in that world for a while.

 

[Thomas Koch]

While I agree it was an awesome upgrade, the quad battery module was not with the $2000 in reality.

 

[Justin Chin]

While I agree it was an awesome upgrade, the quad battery module was not with the $2000 in reality.

True, we can discuss the value of the items included in the move from RED One to Epic, but I'm pretty sure we can agree that most camera companies won't provide that level of an upgrade offer.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

I'm going to say up front i'm not expecting anything other than the body upgrade. The Card upgrade program would be awesome even if it's a minor discount.

I think the toughest part for me to swallow is having to get a new battery plate and other modules. I'd love the opportunity to trade in anything I realistically can to upgrade to newer versions if applicable. Personally I've been looking at making the jump to RV XL's somewhat soon due to the nature of what I do for work. I'm currently using Brick's i've had since the Scarlet launch, same with my cards. I feel they've earned their value, but anything RED Will do to help i'm all in. Thats what makes them great.

I can't recall but has it been said the 5" touchscreen would work with some kind of lemo adapter addition you'd need?

Count me in at some point even if it's at the next deadline.

 

[R. Gonzales]

I'm glad I've booked my trip to Vegas!

Bob,

I have mine booked too. Hopefully you're will to teach me the ropes - I'm such a newbie.

 

[Colin Delehanty]

Do you plan to announce weapon upgrade discounts for people upgrading to Dragon before NAB soon? I don't want to spend that kind of money right now since I just bought the Epic MX a couple weeks ago. If it means saving thousands of dollars I'd be whiling to spend the money now for the long term benefits. Sorry if this has already been answered. I tried digging up the answer somewhere in your comments. Also, are there only a limited number of Dragon upgrades available? Should I worry that inventory may disappear before NAB due to the increased demand?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

True, we can discuss the value of the items included in the move from RED One to Epic, but I'm pretty sure we can agree that most camera companies won't provide that level of an upgrade offer.

Exactly...

For the upgrade I got a "shootable" Epic.

And kept the R1

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Beyond Obsolescence Obsolete, I believe one of the key reasons upgraders with Dragons get a substantial discount is that their sensor (and likely a few other things) gets "recycled" into the Weapon body. Based on the RedOne to Epic experience I'd expect RED to offer an option where one could keep their existing Epic or Scarlet and still get a nice "loyalty" discount, and a place in line ahead of new adopters - but I wouldn't expect it to be nearly as deep a discount.

FWIW, if you see yourself going Weapon and staying with the RED platform for a while, then I think the Dragon upgrade will pay off. I make that statement in part because we have no idea how quickly Weapons will ship in quantity. If it turns out to be a year or more, no offense to Jarred and the RedTeam who have been working very hard to improve their operational capabilities, then you'd be shooting Dragon the whole time you were waiting. The opportunity to really get to know the response characteristics of the Dragon, real world lens coverage, etc will only make the move to Weapon that much smoother.

For Colin, or others in a similar boat, I have to ask this question: Would a difference of $5,000 in total cost be enough to change your decision about whether to go Dragon now or wait for Weapon or change platforms? If so, then I would suggest you look at the bigger issues involved with your particular business model, client base, etc in choosing your path more so than worrying about whether the cost savings of the upgrade path vs buying at full price is a delta of, for example only, $9,000 vs $4,000.

Cheers - #19

 

[Mark T Workman]

You will be sending in your Dragon mini mag module to be upgraded to the Weapon mini mag module... if you choose the upgrade path.

Thank you so much for your posts, my Scarlet and I apologize if this answer has already been given or is obvious and I've simply missed it, Jarred!

For those of us just on the verge of upgrading from Scarlet MX to Dragon, would we have problems if we decided to stay with our present mags and modules? Is this a bad choice for any reason other than prolonging the inevitable switch needed for the Weapon? Wouldn't Scarlet MX users be saving a step (and a little money) until we upgrade to WEAPON where the new modules and mags are a must?

 

[Bob Gundu]

Thank you so much for your posts, my Scarlet and I apologize if this answer has already been given or is obvious and I've simply missed it, Jarred!

For those of us just on the verge of upgrading from Scarlet MX to Dragon, would we have problems if we decided to stay with our present mags and modules? Is this a bad choice for any reason other than prolonging the inevitable switch needed for the Weapon? Wouldn't Scarlet MX users be saving a step (and a little money) until we upgrade to WEAPON where the new modules and mags are a must?

Yes you can use your regular side SSD and 1.8 mags with dragon until you decide to switch to minis for weapon.

 

[Demetri Zuev]

Jarred, what interests me the most right now is this - what's the realistic timetable for folks like me to get a Weapon if right now I got an Epic-MX and will perform a Dragon upgrade before NAB as you're suggesting?

I'm excited for Weapon, just don't want to wait in line for another year to get it.

 

[Joshua Binder]

1.) The 7" (and presumably older 5" and non-touch) and Bomb OLED (and presumably LCOS) will require an adapter lemo. Apparently there's a new sidehandle, so presumably the old one (and Switchblade) won't work. No word on Redmote/Redlink, but because there is a different pin-out on the back of the brain, I'm guessing they won't work. And the lens mounts have been said to work.

2.) Not sure; what connection/port does it use?

So Any love for those of us who bought a switchblade and after eons of delays just got them like a month ago? I mean is it just me or does it seem ridiculous that RED announced the switchblade at NAB but just started shipping them in Q4 2014 just in time to be completely discontinued in Q1 2015 ?

Or am i the only dummy who bought one?

 

[Mark T Workman]

Yes you can use your regular side SSD and 1.8 mags with dragon until you decide to switch to minis for weapon.

Thanks Bob! I will be very curious to see 5K 23.976 Dragon from Scarlet #0123 (through my old Nikon glass!) when that day comes! I have every confidence that it will be even cooler than the 5K B Roll I can shoot now but will settle for "just as cool" if that is the case!

Congratulations to RED for pushing the envelope and continuing the advancement of modern cinema!

 

[Paul Schneider]

So. Media. Im in that position where I can upgrade to dragon or sell an epic and move on. I must say it really comes down to media. The new Arri uses CFAST 2.0 media, which is hundreds instead of thousands for red mags. I'd love Red to incorporate similar, more accessible and ubiquitous options for their media, but I suspect the markup may be to attractive from a business perspective to lose.

Still pondering the Dragon upgrade. The new arri is expensive, but doing the math on the media alone makes up for a lot in my mind.

 

[Phil Holland]

So. Media. Im in that position where I can upgrade to dragon or sell an epic and move on. I must say it really comes down to media. The new Arri uses CFAST 2.0 media, which is hundreds instead of thousands for red mags. I'd love Red to incorporate similar, more accessible and ubiquitous options for their media, but I suspect the markup may be to attractive from a business perspective to lose.

Still pondering the Dragon upgrade. The new arri is expensive, but doing the math on the media alone makes up for a lot in my mind.

CFAST 2.0 media scales up to MINI-MAG capacities and is competitive price-wise. Red has stated that there will likely be a smaller around 256GB MINI-MAG to assist with that exact transition. Not to mention there is going to be another "helper" in there as well.

Personally I don't see a huge need for something smaller like 64GB or 128GB at this point when handling 4K+, but we'll see what Red produces.

 

[Phil Holland]

Jarred, what interests me the most right now is this - what's the realistic timetable for folks like me to get a Weapon if right now I got an Epic-MX and will perform a Dragon upgrade before NAB as you're suggesting?

I'm excited for Weapon, just don't want to wait in line for another year to get it.

I'm betting that there's no real way to answer this question at the moment as nothing is in motion yet illuminating demand.

However, I'm betting that the Dragon to Weapon Upgrades will happen a bit smoother than say some of the MX to Dragon Upgrades in the past. Red has made a lot of changes in the last couple years.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

So Any love for those of us who bought a switchblade and after eons of delays just got them like a month ago? I mean is it just me or does it seem ridiculous that RED announced the switchblade at NAB but just started shipping them in Q4 2014 just in time to be completely discontinued in Q1 2015 ?

Or am i the only dummy who bought one?

I bought one too, Joshua…although I got it last October...and I absolutely love it. As a result, my Sidehandle stays in it's case most of the time these days. I have been watching these threads pretty carefully, and haven't seen Jarred say definitively that the Switchblade was not going to be supported on Weapon. I think it is still in the gray area of "things we don't know yet".

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Phil Holland had confirmed Red has said the existing exchangeable OPLFs will work with the Weapon. I assume this statement ends the speculation of a larger Dragon sensor?

 

[Elan Gunos]

Speculation: Red Dragon fulfillment wasn't fast enough. As a result, no money was coming in. So in order to lock in that money they created a working prototype called "weapon". Weapon would probably be out to market in early 2017 for early adopters who will pay a premium. Late 2017/early 2018 for the general public.

 

[Milan S.]

Phil Holland had confirmed Red has said the existing exchangeable OPLFs will work with the Weapon. I assume this statement ends the speculation of a larger Dragon sensor?

I think that speculation ended when Jarred announced Sensor-Body-Sensor-Body upgrade pattern.
In other words, we can expect similar path Red took with the MX sensor going from R1 to Epic body. Sensor didn't change but its functionality did.

Personally, there's plenty of life left in the Dragon sensor.