Dragon upgrades

[Jon Carr]

Hi Jon,

Jarred answered that question I posed, as I have one of each Dragon body. He said there will be a Non-Carbon Weapon as well.

Thank you very much

Fury

Thank you nick, when my number was called. I had to pass on upgrading to dragon carbon cause of sceduling of a feature. So wanted carbon fiber for the amount of movi stuff I do. Don't wanna make that mistake again.

 

[Raphael Varandas]

It's already done. Price will go back to $9500 on Monday and you guys can do your thing.

This is what family does... love and war and fist fights in the backyard but it all comes from a good place and usually ends up in a good place.

hahhahaha Jarred, GREAT!!
Transfering funds my friend.

 

[Eric Oh]

Hellou,

as an owner of a red epic-x for me the main problem is the lack of information concerning the up-coming red weapon. Before jumping into the red dragon update, I would love to know the following;

- sensor size of weapon
- frame rates of weapon
- estimated price upgrade from dragon to weapon
- estimated iso weapon
- estimated dynamic range

The red epic serves me well, so I didn't jump into upgrading into dragon…however if weapon turns out to be super slow motion 200 fps and up in 5k, than I might consider jumping into an upgrade path…I think it would be fair from red to reveal these basic info for all current users that are on the fence…this would make our purchase so much easier…don't you agree?

Drazen,

As Jarred mention, this is a courtesy heads-up. All specs will be known at time of official release at NAB, and that's when you will be able to put a deposit down. No one is asking us to put money down now when the full facts are not know.

Regards,

 

[Eric Oh]

For upgrades, will there be option for owners to go carbon weapon? Or are all of weapons carbon?

There will be carbon and non-carbon weapon options. You will be able to upgrade to Carbon even if your Dragon is non-carbon.

Regards,

 

[Thomas Koch]

I can see the giant banners at NAB.
"Choose your Weapon". Choice of S35, FF, 645.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I can see the giant banners at NAB.
"Choose your Weapon". Choice of S35, FF, 645.

I'm thinking / wishing for the same thing. But realistically, I'm not expecting new sensor sizes until the next sensor cycle.

 

[Jamon Lewis]

It's already done. Price will go back to $9500 on Monday and you guys can do your thing.

This is what family does... love and war and fist fights in the backyard but it all comes from a good place and usually ends up in a good place.

Jarred.. Thanks man, seriously.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Why camera upgrades are partially a state of mind

Why camera upgrades are partially a state of mind

This has been an interesting read. Jarred clearly knows how to get the troops all stirred up. What's interesting about all of this is next year will essentially mark the 10 year anniversary of when RED announced to the world they were building a 4K camera. I've been a customer since 2006 and I have enjoyed the ride. There has always been something about RED's approach which I think walks the line between outlaw and revolutionist that has intrigued me and kept me interested all of these years. Owning a Red One when they first came out was exciting and opened up so many doors that otherwise may never have opened. And damn, we had some fun times at those parties in Vegas too.

10 years later, still excited about what RED is doing, as well as all of the other companies that are bringing new and exciting tools to market. One thing I have definitely learned over this past decade though is to keep things in perspective. When RED offered the upgrade from the Red One to MX, it made a lot of sense for me at that time to do it. I was renting the camera to productions and making a good rate on my kit and services. The upgrade was a no brainer and RED's offer was quite unique at the time. When the Epic was announced and the upgrade program was in place, it was incredibly tempting to stay on the upgrade path. New camera at a reasonable upgrade charge. I thought long and hard about it and came to the conclusion that at that point I was no longer really interested in renting cameras. I had to ask myself a hard question. What was upgrading going to get me? A shiny new camera with incredible feature set was the obvious answer. But when I analyzed it a little deeper I realized the reason I would be getting it was to say I had the latest and greatest. The problem with that is that it didn't make sense for where I was heading at the time. I was not on a track to become a cinematographer. In fact, I would argue that the Red One still to this day is more camera than I can take advantage of. And one of my good friends and a DP who I wanted to work more with on future projects was upgrading to Epic. I couldn't justify the purchase, even if it was very reasonable. So, I opted out.

Fast forward to 2015 and I have used every RED camera that has come to market. As a DIT, as a director, as a producer. I still feel I am part of this community. I still feel I get to use the latest and greatest RED tech. Even on the movie I'm working on at the moment, which is Alexa we are shooting VFX with Dragon. I get to experience the best of all worlds. What I'm driving at is camera upgrades are partially a state of mind. While they may make a lot of sense for one's business model, it would seem that some feel like a gun is pointed at their head and they must upgrade to survive. And in all fairness, that may be the case depending on what kind of market you're in, who your clients are, etc. But I do wonder if everyone is going through that same analysis period I went through when deciding whether to upgrade from Red One to Epic. Has everyone asked themselves the really hard questions? What does this upgrade do for me that justifies the expense and the logistics? For example, Jarred has barely released any information, yet it has caused quite the reaction both positive and negative. Yet, Dragon and even Epic MX are alive and well. Understandably, the mystery surrounding some of the details may alarm some if it impacts their business model. But part of RED's marketing has always been mystery (Mysterium). In that regard things haven't changed and I suspect why some are attracted to the brand and why others are turned off by it.

What I do know is that we are all in different situations, financially, emotionally, and creatively. Hence why Jarred can probably never win everyone over but maybe that's part of the fun. I just hope everyone at RED, especially Jarred are still having fun. Because ultimately that works in everyone's favor. Mistakes will be made, but so won't discoveries and that's the payoff. If they can continue to innovate, then we will continue to ask ourselves that question - how does this innovation impact me and does it make sense for me to jump on board at this time? I loved the newest RED Collective video as that filmmaker seemed at one with that camera. Doesn't look like he has any doubt about that question.

 

[Joan Poggio]

ok. How about just from now till NAB then?

I would say this would be incredibly generous of RED! I was on facebook chatting with two friends who recently went Scarlet to Epic, and where now wanting to make the jump to Dragon, but struggling with the fact the price had gone up. Still, after a lengthy chat, they decided to go with the upgrade anyway. Now they will chuffed to bits if this is the case. I think many MX users will jump and upgrade with this offer! Again, no one, NO ONE in this industry, that I know of, has this kind of commitment to their community. Thanks RED!

 

[Mike P.]

I dunno, in the past with M (4k) -> MX in R1 (4.5k) -> MX in Epic (5k) -> Dragon in Epic (6k) there has always been a sensor size increase. 1.6x to 1.5x to 1.3x to 1.12x... FF35 would *not* surprise me for entry-iteration Weapon, and I'm cautiously optimistic about 65mm.

Conversely, in terms of cost, I'd draw the line at FF35. Anything bigger and the price for decent glass is beyond my reach. Hawks and Arri's 65mm sets are sweet and all, but unless RED release affordable RPP65s to go with their sensors, it'd be too costly for day-to-day owner/op-age for cine-glass. MF is good and all, but pulling focus is gonna blow. And what's the point in owning if you need to pay a premium to rent the cine-65mm glass anyway?

 

[Scott C]

We've seen hints on both sides of the sensor size aisle. Has anyone considered or ruled out the possibility of dragon sensor stacking a la the Alexa 65? I could see that fitting into the dragon upgrade logic.

 

[Thomas Koch]

I'm actually personally over FF35. I love the s35 size. dragon is great with my CPs too.

 

[Mike P.]

Dragon is closer to FF35 than s35. And CP2s cover ff35.

 

[Ernesto Lomeli]

I'm pretty excited .
Thanks for pushing the bar and excited to see what's to come .

And for all the haters out there, red has always been unique
In there upgrade paths. We have cameras that have shot some fancy
Movies that once started as Red-Ones. Every generation creating
A prettier looking image after the next. It's been a great adventure.

 

[Luke Neumann]

So, I was browsing the RED site and saw something that piqued my interested under the RED Headquarters "view services" section.

Hands-on Product Interaction

Is the product we interact with up to us?

If so, see you Monday!

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Do someone know something about the new form factor? One of the big advantage of Red cameras was the form factor, if the Weapon is "bigger" like some articles are stating, i have to admit that my camera choice will not be as obvious as it used to be.. And i know i'm not the only one who feels concerned about that question..
People who have gimbal gear, drones, Movi or particular rig will choose to stay with the epic body, i had that discussion yesterday with some friends..

 

[Bob Gundu]

Someone knows something about the new form factor? One of the big advantage of Red cameras is the form factor, if the Weapon is "bigger" like some articles say, i have to admit that my camera choice will not be as obvious as it used to be.. And i know i'm not the only one who feels concerned about that question..
People who have gimbal gear, drones, Movi or particular rig will choose to stay with the epic body, i had that discussion yesterday with some friends..

Highly doubt it. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Do someone know something about the new form factor? One of the big advantage of Red cameras was the form factor, if the Weapon is "bigger" like some articles are stating, i have to admit that my camera choice will not be as obvious as it used to be.. And i know i'm not the only one who feels concerned about that question..
People who have gimbal gear, drones, Movi or particular rig will choose to stay with the epic body, i had that discussion yesterday with some friends..

I personally share and understand your worries...

HOWEVER...

I must also say that I would most welcome a Body that it is Slightly Larger... As to allow for bigger Motherboard and important Electronics & other components that would give "WEAPON" the firm edge over Dragon in more then one way...

There is just no other way around really, unless it's all moved to "Nano" and "Micro" tech down to the "Atom" level which of course would bring the cost of such camera to easily over the 3 digits.

Don't make too big of a deal... Agin, if just slightly large in size then current body, you'll still be ok.

 

[Daniel Murphy]

I personally share and understand your worries...

HOWEVER...

I must also say that I would most welcome a Body that it is Slightly Larger... As to allow for bigger Motherboard and important Electronics & other components that would give "WEAPON" the firm edge over Dragon in more then one way...

There is just no other way around really, unless it's all moved to "Nano" and "Micro" tech down to the "Atom" level which of course would bring the cost of such camera to easily over the 3 digits.

Don't make too big of a deal... Agin, if just slightly large in size then current body, you'll still be ok.

I agree with Ketch, as people realize what this new camera can and will do all shall be forgotten or at least- accepted. RED evolves...we evolve!

 

[Matt Ryan]

If it's a bigger body size (and by bigger I mean slightly), I sure hope they include dual monitor support to get rid of the +1 module need, add quad sdi for 4k output, HDMI 2.0 with 4K output, sync and other ports, audio inputs, and external controls (Like the switchblade). That would be logical and would make sense in a slightly larger body similar to the F55. Would make everyone happier to not have to purchase additional modules and would make the camera a better value to entry.