Dragon upgrades

[Stacey Spears]

Obviously assuming a Carbon Weapon is in the same ballpark price as a Carbon Dragon you are going to be paying alot more than $6k-$10k to go from a Scarlet Dragon to a Carbon Weapon.

This answers a question, thank you. I was wondering if we would be able to go from EPIC-M to Carbon Weapon and that sounds like a yes, if one is willing to pay the additional price. Thank you for giving us the option.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Heh heh we love that name, it was the name of Jim's Bobcat, but yes Mathews has claimed it already for camera products. Wonder how much trouble they get in over that name.

Here is hoping we see something called a RED BFG in the future, RED Boom Stick or maybe a RED STFU.

 

[Rome Will]

I slept on it. Here's what I came up with...

Let us upgrade from Epic-MX to the Dragon sensor for $9500. You've (Red/other Redusers) warned us over and over about what was on the horizon...we didn't take the bait though. Either because we couldn't afford it, or the timing wasn't right and those funds could have been used on other things (like actual productions).

Below are my thoughts:

1) Time Value of Money- If you know what this is then this explanation will be easy. As an indie filmmaker, I wanted to upgrade before Dec. 1, but after an upgrade already earlier in 2014, I thought about what was better- spend $9.5k to go to Dragon, or wait another year (maybe 1.5 years) and then pay $12.5k to upgrade to Dragon. That extra $3k I'll be spending down the line has less utility then the $9.5k I could use in that same time period on things like actors, other red gear, or things to help the production value. It was an awesome opportunity to hold off on upgrading to Dragon with a small penalty of $3k. BUT, that changed in the last 48 hours. Now we don't have +1 year to upgrade. We have what looks like 4 months.

2) ​Production costs should come down, - Again, no one has addressed my earlier comments. What's changed with the manufacturing that caused the $3k price increase? People slowing down conversions from MX-to-Dragon? Understood. But that will likely change now that we have a hard close date...people will be "short" squeezed into upgrading or else face the obsolete (again, as others have pointed out our camera won't really be obsolete, the MX will still be a great camera for years...but as I said earlier, the mkt. wants the latest and best). Given that after NAB, people will be upgrading from Dragon to Weapon, it's easy to assume that a lot conversion's will be taking place, which will improve the economies of scale, making it more cost effective to service each camera brain coming in. How much would you lose as a company by lowering the upgrade price for less than 40 days? February is almost over so that just leaves March and a couple weeks in April to grab the "discount" on Epic brains, or just wait until June.

I think that by doing this, it helps with the "we didn't know when we would stop the upgrade window from MX-to-Dragon" but still allow those to try to lock in their Dragon before NAB, and then jump in the queue for those savings on Weapon when they get their financing together. It's a way to meet in the middle. What would it hurt to allow people to upgrade to Dragon for a little over a month for $9.5k? I know it's labor intensive, but this will happen anyway post NAB right?

These are just suggestions.

*You can even give the disclaimer that the reduced price is only available for people who have owned their Epic-MX brains for less than a year...which is my case.

 

[Brian Boyer]

Dragon is nowhere near the end of it's life cycle. It's not being discontinued at all.

It's been stated several times by Jarred but, unfortunately, I think people are misunderstanding this fact. I think this misunderstanding is part of what's causing some of the handwringing.

The current Epic/Scarlet body style is not ending in June 2015. The names "Epic" and "Scarlet" are at the end of the road for that body style, however.

Weapon has a new body style and nomenclature.

If history is any indication, people who can't make the jump to Dragon from MX before NAB may be able to sneak up on BT Weapons at a really good price later this year.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Since RED is going to mini-mags only on the Weapon side module, those of us planning to Weaponize will have to have at least a couple of mini-mags (and a reader with fast I/O please). That's reality.

My question is projected life span for the mini-mags. Maximum read/write speeds? Mating cycles? MTBF? Moreover, and perhaps more critically, when might media types still in development become too compelling to ignore? Some of these questions can only be answered with the passage of time, but, if it wouldn't be too valuable to competitors, could you at least give us some metrics on the mini-mags like current read/write speeds and potential read/write speeds via optimization without changing form factor?

For example: if the mini-mags can read/write at 500MB/s then it's much easier to commit the capital to buying a stack of them, than if they cap out at 250MB/s. I'll understand if this subject is off limits for competitive reasons, but whatever you do feel comfortable telling us would be appreciated so that we can make better informed decisions. (Maybe Brook can help me hold Brent down while Jarred replies ;-) hehe

Cheers - #19

 

[Jean Wallez]

Jarred, it isn't difficult or embarrassing to answer to this simple question:
Will the Dragon/Epic/Scarlet modules be compatible with this new body?
Please!

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Since RED is going to mini-mags only on the Weapon side module, those of us planning to Weaponize will have to have at least a couple of mini-mags (and a reader with fast I/O please). That's reality.

My question is projected life span for the mini-mags. Maximum read/write speeds? Mating cycles? MTBF? Moreover, and perhaps more critically, when might media types still in development become too compelling to ignore? Some of these questions can only be answered with the passage of time, but, if it wouldn't be too valuable to competitors, could you at least give us some metrics on the mini-mags like current read/write speeds and potential read/write speeds via optimization without changing form factor?

For example: if the mini-mags can read/write at 500MB/s then it's much easier to commit the capital to buying a stack of them, than if they cap out at 250MB/s. I'll understand if this subject is off limits for competitive reasons, but whatever you do feel comfortable telling us would be appreciated so that we can make better informed decisions. (Maybe Brook can help me hold Brent down while Jarred replies ;-) hehe

Cheers - #19

Blair current minimag is 200MB/s which is way slower when you compare newer Codex cards which supports 6K UNCOMPRESSED 750MB/S and 2TB version coming this year.

 

[Jarred Land]

I slept on it. Here's what I came up with...

Let us upgrade from Epic-MX to the Dragon sensor for $9500..

ok. How about just from now till NAB then?

 

[Ces Peynetti]

2) ​Production costs should come down, - Again, no one has addressed my earlier comments. What's changed with the manufacturing that caused the $3k price increase? People slowing down conversions from MX-to-Dragon? Understood. But that will likely change now that we have a hard close date...people will be "short" squeezed into upgrading or else...

*You can even give the disclaimer that the reduced price is only available for people who have owned their Epic-MX brains for less than a year...which is my case.

This is under the assumption that A LOT of people would upgrade to Dragon from MX now that have this new information, but I highly doubt that. Some of us would upgrade sure, but never to the extent of when they had dedicated assembly lines of hundreds of cameras being upgraded. Upgrades slowed down, the price had to go up (if any I'm thankful that now I know an estimated deadline of when my upgrade opportunity will end) makes sense to me at a business level.

I love your suggestions, being in a similar situation there is nothing else I would love for the upgrade price to come down to $9500 again... but I have to accept it, I missed that boat. That was MY choice, regardless of the new information that exists today. It hurts because it feels so close, almost as if we could reach it, but it's gone. Pleading with RED to hear my cries is really just haggling. I can't expect to win them all and for a business to bend over backwards to fit my personal needs. Would it be nice? Of course! but highly unusual and unexpected.

All that to say, you haven't lost... you just didn't win the way you wanted to.

EDIT: Well many people including Jarred wrote stuff while I wrote this heheh.

 

[Drazen Stader]

I couldn't agree more with Rome. Count me in for the 9500usd dragon upgrade for current red epic mx owners that lasts until NAB. That should help many of the current red epic users who had to postpone their upgrade to red dragon!

ok. How about just from now till NAB then?

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

I slept on it. Here's what I came up with...

Let us upgrade from Epic-MX to the Dragon sensor for $9500. You've (Red/other Redusers) warned us over and over about what was on the horizon...we didn't take the bait though. Either because we couldn't afford it, or the timing wasn't right and those funds could have been used on other things (like actual productions).

Below are my thoughts:

1) Time Value of Money- If you know what this is then this explanation will be easy. As an indie filmmaker, I wanted to upgrade before Dec. 1, but after an upgrade already earlier in 2014, I thought about what was better- spend $9.5k to go to Dragon, or wait another year (maybe 1.5 years) and then pay $12.5k to upgrade to Dragon. That extra $3k I'll be spending down the line has less utility then the $9.5k I could use in that same time period on things like actors, other red gear, or things to help the production value. It was an awesome opportunity to hold off on upgrading to Dragon with a small penalty of $3k. BUT, that changed in the last 48 hours. Now we don't have +1 year to upgrade. We have what looks like 4 months.

2) ​Production costs should come down, - Again, no one has addressed my earlier comments. What's changed with the manufacturing that caused the $3k price increase? People slowing down conversions from MX-to-Dragon? Understood. But that will likely change now that we have a hard close date...people will be "short" squeezed into upgrading or else face the obsolete (again, as others have pointed out our camera won't really be obsolete, the MX will still be a great camera for years...but as I said earlier, the mkt. wants the latest and best). Given that after NAB, people will be upgrading from Dragon to Weapon, it's easy to assume that a lot conversion's will be taking place, which will improve the economies of scale, making it more cost effective to service each camera brain coming in. How much would you lose as a company by lowering the upgrade price for less than 40 days? February is almost over so that just leaves March and a couple weeks in April to grab the "discount" on Epic brains, or just wait until June.

I think that by doing this, it helps with the "we didn't know when we would stop the upgrade window from MX-to-Dragon" but still allow those to try to lock in their Dragon before NAB, and then jump in the queue for those savings on Weapon when they get their financing together. It's a way to meet in the middle. What would it hurt to allow people to upgrade to Dragon for a little over a month for $9.5k? I know it's labor intensive, but this will happen anyway post NAB right?

These are just suggestions.

*You can even give the disclaimer that the reduced price is only available for people who have owned their Epic-MX brains for less than a year...which is my case.

Then people who upgraded to Dragon before Dec 1st can get chance to upgrade Weapon %25 off than you? how about this deal?
There was a date and you missed it! some of us find the money or got it from bank with interest instead of using on something else put it on Dragon.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

ok. How about just from now till NAB then?

Anyone complaining pretty much has nothing to complain about anymore... Jarred you're the man!

 

[Mike P.]

Yeah, but that'd understandably piss off every person that upgraded for $12500 in the last two months. And, I mean, if they're crazy enough to do that, why not lower Scarlet-X-to-Scarlet-D back to $9500?

...oh the irony.

 

[Jarred Land]

I couldn't agree more with Rome. Count me in for the 9500usd dragon upgrade for current red epic mx owners that lasts until NAB. That should help many of the current red epic users who had to postpone their upgrade to red dragon!

I like it. I am asking you guys to take a bit of a leap of faith so it seems only fair that I should take a leap of faith that there will be enough of the remaining people to do the upgrade from now till NAB to balance out. Good?

 

[Adrian Weinbrecht]

ok. How about just from now till NAB then?

Jarred do you mean that ?

We will book on Monday for our Epics to be upgraded if $9500 is the price.

 

[Mike P.]

Camera tech and movie making aside, *that's* crazy (in an awesome way).

 

[Andy White]

LOL - no matter what direction this takes, some people will be unhappy!

I say add 95% discount to Weapon for all those who paid the original 34K price for the EpicX... (Firechief - kidding!).

 

[Ces Peynetti]

I like it. I am asking you guys to take a bit of a leap of faith so it seems only fair that I should take a leap of faith that there will be enough of the remaining people to do the upgrade from now till NAB to balance out. Good?

Love it! I'm upgrading my Epic MX to Dragon then. Coming up with $3000 is much easier than coming up with $6000 (which is what I'm personally missing from hitting the mark)

 

[Brian Merlen]

Well I can tell you flat out your theory is wrong. My MX is out renting my Dragon at one of the biggest mainstream houses in the country.. So that is why I am personally concerned now, since the 17k I spent on a Dragon upgrade and Rocket X has not gone as wonderful as I thought it would I am feeling conflicted is all on what to do with the remaining MX packages, they are renting great right now. Not sure the reasoning, its very strange, and hopefully its a short term weird thing and not a long term trend but having the hard cut off date kind of blows in that I am not sure whether to Dragonize/Weaponize all the packages or leave some for legacy models. The MX is still doing so well, just a tough choice is all, and for people with multiple packages/brands its always kind of a shit shoot on what the next hit will be ya know lol?

I slept on it. Here's what I came up with...

Let us upgrade from Epic-MX to the Dragon sensor for $9500. You've (Red/other Redusers) warned us over and over about what was on the horizon...we didn't take the bait though. Either because we couldn't afford it, or the timing wasn't right and those funds could have been used on other things (like actual productions).

Below are my thoughts:

1) Time Value of Money- If you know what this is then this explanation will be easy. As an indie filmmaker, I wanted to upgrade before Dec. 1, but after an upgrade already earlier in 2014, I thought about what was better- spend $9.5k to go to Dragon, or wait another year (maybe 1.5 years) and then pay $12.5k to upgrade to Dragon. That extra $3k I'll be spending down the line has less utility then the $9.5k I could use in that same time period on things like actors, other red gear, or things to help the production value. It was an awesome opportunity to hold off on upgrading to Dragon with a small penalty of $3k. BUT, that changed in the last 48 hours. Now we don't have +1 year to upgrade. We have what looks like 4 months.

2) ​Production costs should come down, - Again, no one has addressed my earlier comments. What's changed with the manufacturing that caused the $3k price increase? People slowing down conversions from MX-to-Dragon? Understood. But that will likely change now that we have a hard close date...people will be "short" squeezed into upgrading or else face the obsolete (again, as others have pointed out our camera won't really be obsolete, the MX will still be a great camera for years...but as I said earlier, the mkt. wants the latest and best). Given that after NAB, people will be upgrading from Dragon to Weapon, it's easy to assume that a lot conversion's will be taking place, which will improve the economies of scale, making it more cost effective to service each camera brain coming in. How much would you lose as a company by lowering the upgrade price for less than 40 days? February is almost over so that just leaves March and a couple weeks in April to grab the "discount" on Epic brains, or just wait until June.

I think that by doing this, it helps with the "we didn't know when we would stop the upgrade window from MX-to-Dragon" but still allow those to try to lock in their Dragon before NAB, and then jump in the queue for those savings on Weapon when they get their financing together. It's a way to meet in the middle. What would it hurt to allow people to upgrade to Dragon for a little over a month for $9.5k? I know it's labor intensive, but this will happen anyway post NAB right?

These are just suggestions.

*You can even give the disclaimer that the reduced price is only available for people who have owned their Epic-MX brains for less than a year...which is my case.

 

[Jarred Land]

Yeah, but that'd understandably piss off every person that upgraded for $12500 in the last two months.

if we hit the numbers then it will all balance out since its quarterly and those that paid the extra $12500 price we can credit the difference back @ NAB towards whatever is next.

O boy our Adult Supervision is gonna kill me. For those that can, please send flowers to our CFO on monday with a note that says " Sorry "