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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon upgrades

I have been a Red owner since 2008 and have been very happy with every version.
The one feature I miss is Image flip (horizontal and vertical). You had it on the Red One.
Can you please include this on the Weapon.
I use a lot of steadicam and doing low mode without image flip is cumbersome. All the monitors on set have to be turned upside down as well as my steadicam monitor. On a commercial there can be several.

www.sergeifranklin.com
 
I'm ready to buy cameras when they are ready rather than standing in line in front of seller with an empty cart. The 1.5 year wait for Epic was utterly ridiculous. Call me when it ready.
 
Lee Dashiell said:
I'm ready to buy cameras when they are ready rather than standing in line in front of seller with an empty cart. The 1.5 year wait for Epic was utterly ridiculous. Call me when it ready.
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At first I expected a longish wait to get this upgrade. But then I figured with Jarred running around L A with a camera that there are no surprises that haven't already been addressed.

And since it is only an existing sensor tweak rather than a whole new board and sensor invention, things should go smoothly. They have experience in upgrading and should know what to expect this time around.

I think one's place in line will be a good measure of expected delivery dates for this cycle.
 
Congratulations to Red not only for making the best motion picture cameras in the world but also for being so unbelievably fair with their customers. From giving us great opportunities to own the newest models to unbelievably EXCELLENT technical support. Feels like Christmas every day! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
 
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Ryan Hamblin said:
I don't think there will be a scarlet weapon, just the ability to upgrade scarlet dragon to weapon
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I am curious about this. What makes you think this? (I think I hope you are correct. lol) I have been planning to go from my Scarlet to Epic so I could eventually get to the "top tier" with an Epic Dragon. But, now I have run out of time (without sufficient funds) to make all the interim leaps in time so I am contemplating a direct purchase of Scarlet Dragon to "stay on the train." I'd love to hear that my Scarlet Dragon purchase gives me, at least eventually, a ticket to that "top tier."
 
Some of the comments and complaints I’ve just read on here are rather infuriating to me. There are some seriously illogical and senseless people who own RED cameras apparently. You bought a camera and paid “x” amount of money for it because it can do “x” amount of things for you. Its not broken now that a new product is out is it? Does your 5k or 6k camera no longer record in those brilliant motion pictures? Or did I miss something with my purchase?

Did some of you receive an agreement that with that purchase stating you are also entitled to the all the future products that the company comes out with even when you have no idea what, if, or when them come out… Oh and that you would get said products for as close to FREE as possible. If you did then yes, your arguments and complaints hold every bit of weight you seem to think they do.

I guess its safe to assume you also buy a car then return to the dealership a year later demanding they upgrade your v6 to the new v8 they just released. And scold the company for not telling you they were developing a v8 in order to stay relevant as a company and compete with other companies and ultimately provide YOU (the one complaining to them) with a better service and products.

I cant express how much I feel for you Jarred. You clearly possess such a passion for what you do. I know you read every one of these peoples comments and have to sit there biting your tongue on some things you likely want to respond with. It really bothers me that you post something like this and people actually have the audacity to be angry with you and the company. And accuse you of not being transparent????? Are you kidding me???

Its absolutely absurd some folks can’t see the magnitude of value in what your company offers. The easiest business model for you would be to just release new cameras. That’s it. No upgrades no complaints, like pretty much every other retailer on the planet. The fact that you go through this agony all for US, the customer, speaks volumes. It’s why you’ve earned my business. A good company really needs and deserves good customers. This is by no means an ass kissing post. I’m truly heated. Basically I’m just writing this to say thank you and beg you not to discontinue these upgrade services in the future just because a few bad apples cant understand you have to earn things you’re not simply “entitled.”
 
I really would like to see the "keep the body" strategy for a Dragon to Weapon step up. I guess dreaming is allowed?
As it was mentioned so often, the update pipeline is a lot of work. So, please turn the Dragon into an NFR (not for resale) object for a little bit of an extra fee and I'm happy. ;o)




Gunleik Groven said:
I think people forget that most of those following the upgrade path, have yet to pay more than an alexa for the bodies we've had....

R1: 17.500
Epic: 9.500 (I think, when I kept the R1)
Dragon: 10.000
Weapon: Who knows? :)
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Ian D'Amelia said:
Guys,
I'm going to voice a few concerns and questions from the perspective of an indie filmmaker that struggled to buy an EPIC MX, and finally made it to this tier recently. I am just as excited as anyone about the prospect of a new body and new technology from RED. However, I feel like my hand is completely forced here. I want to see if I have my timelines and information correct:

1. If I don't go to DRAGON by some drop dead point in the summer (post NAB), will I lose the ability to EVER upgrade to a DRAGON or WEAPON? Effectively barring me from upgrade paths?
2. If this is true, can we have an official statement on support timelines for my EPIC MX? Am I about to be completely SOL if something on my (new to me) camera fails? Have I made a huge mistake?
3. Why would they choose to raise the MX to DRAGON upgrade price before letting us know this path closure was on the horizon? Instead of letting a loyal fan base make an informed decision? Not only is my hand forced (if the above is true), but it will cost me 20%+ in the 2015 pricing schema.
4. When I originally and carefully weighed the options I went with the EPIC MX instead of a SCARLET DRAGON for several reasons. I feel like I am effectively being punished for going with a higher performance body, with an older sensor.

This camera is an amazing piece of equipment, that has allowed me to create in ways that were once impossible. I appreciate any insights into these concerns, especially the first two.
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It seems like I'm in the exact same position as you (indie with a semi-recently acquired Epic MX), so I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge, but someone else is welcome to correct me heheh.

1. Seems like it. The only way you'll be able to "stay on an update path" is to buy a Dragon, and then updating to Weapon, or buying a new Weapon. MX after the summer won't be upgraded into Dragon anymore.
2. Not sure about support timelines, but I'm pretty sure they won't stop supporting Epic MX or Scarlet MX. After ell, the body is the same as the Epic Dragon or the Scarlet Dragon. (unless they stop selling the Epic and scarlet bodies with Dragon, which I don't think is the case)
3. The raise of price was made due to cost of labor. Not many Epic MX or Scarlets are being upgraded to Dragon anymore. It's likely that they didn't know the upgrade path closure was on the horizon (though others seem to think otherwise). Your hand is only forced if you want to stay on the Upgrade path, which is very enticing and a great opportunity, after all, RED are the only ones offering an upgrade option which I don't think was necessarily promised (I may be wrong about this, but I've never seen the availability of upgrades that way). Sometimes we just can't be a part of it if we don't have the money for it at the time. Them the breaks.
4. We are not being punished. At the end of the day, our choice was to take the "older tech" for better performance (kinda similar to buying a mac pro tower vs a trashcan I suppose). Your choice wasn't a bad choice, but it does make sense that it would be more likely for the upgrade path to end sooner for the old tech than the new tech.

At the end of the day, I'm extremely happy with my decision of choosing an Epic MX. I've been able to do a few things I wouldn't have been able to do with a Scarlet Dragon. I would love to stay on the upgrade path sure, but if I can't, well, I'll figure something out and hope that if Upgrade options continue in the future, that I'll be able to hop back in there (though ideally I'd like to make lot's of money so I don't even have to worry heheh).
 
Mathias Erichsen said:
Guess the medium format is not happening right now, but the idea is so interesting that I bought a set of Mamiya 645 glass today, so I'll be ready for when somone gives me the opportunity to use them :)
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Lol, talk about jumping the gun! Although I must admit I almost started researching MF glass immediately.
 
William Ciani said:
Some of the comments and complaints I’ve just read on here are rather infuriating to me. There are some seriously illogical and senseless people who own RED cameras apparently. You bought a camera and paid “x” amount of money for it because it can do “x” amount of things for you. Its not broken now that a new product is out is it? Did some of you receive an agreement that with that purchase stating you are also entitled to the all the future products that the company comes out with even when you have no idea what, if, or when them come out… Oh and that you would get said products for as close to FREE as possible.
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I could not agree more, William!

Reading some of these posts, I feel like saying "Wait, did Jarred promise you a pony??? I didn't get a fucking pony with my camera…WTF????".
 
Tom Greenberg said:
I could not agree more, William!

Reading some of these posts, I feel like saying "Wait, did Jarred promise you a pony??? I didn't get a fucking pony with my camera…WTF????".
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To me, RED has been the gift that keeps on giving - even though I have only owned one RED camera... so far. I had too many firmware improvements to count - and every one gets me excited about my "new" camera. I have an infuriatingly hard decision to make on upgrading - but, hey, there is no BAD decision, just options. And I am sure many of my modules will still work so all I need is to choose a new brain/body.

So, what's the problem?

I really, really, REALLY believe that the information that Jarred has "leaked" is meant to help us make informed decisions as soon as was humanely possible. There is no downside here unless you want to believe that having options and making choices is a bad thing. If you have any RED camera, you have had so many opportunities to choose a path, and this continues. How cool is that?
 
What was the first price when epic-m is released? 39K $ then it went to 24K $.
Anyone from Red can give guarentee we wont see same thing with weapon in 2016? I see it says summer , but in real world what is it? 2016 NAB for first delivery might be be more real than anything else i think.
 
I think people, including Toia have some valid questions and concerns. Media is expensive, he is right to not be thrilled with needing to swap it all (particularly since media prices will tank faster then red rockets now for 1.8, some of us are heavily invested still). Not sure when you guys got your Dragons but mine came in super fast as an "early adopter camera" and is not even a year old, so its also kind of ridiculous to brush that all aside and not have at least some questions about this process in your minds, whether you voice them politely or not. Hopefully NAB will provide answers, but perhaps some of our questions and concerns will impact on the process itself. For instance Ketch moved a bunch of cameras back in the day and at first second hand cameras were not going to be part of the upgrade program, which frankly pissed a lot of people off, many who had dealt with him. So JJ changed the policy in a way that made the users happy, and got them into the program. Everybody won and in the end lots of good will had to be had with the customers...

So I think its also bad to just brush aside all of those who may have questions or concerns, since in the past they have actually helped in these matters, and since frankly some of us have lower serials and are earlier adopters then yourselves... That being said hopefully NAB and more hints will help to clear some of this stuff up, but lets try be a little more civil about the discussion guys.. Since in the end not everyone is comfortable always with the leap of faith... Like my MX had its best month ever last month, rental wise. Ever man, like since I got the thing! So I really do want to get a Weapon and certainly can afford it, just really am hoping to know more before I take the plunge. Since my Dragons paid for on my MX, I am already set anyway it seems, but knowing more will at least make it an informed decision. Thanks
 
No doubt that there are plenty of unanswered questions, and valid concerns. However the general air of hysteria and FUD that seems to accompany these new product "glimpses" doesn't help anything or anyone. I'm sure everyone (me included) wants to be able to figure out exactly how they personally will be impacted by these changes…and plot out the best course of action….but have some patience and trust people. All will be revealed in good time…
 
Tom Greenberg said:
I could not agree more, William!

Reading some of these posts, I feel like saying "Wait, did Jarred promise you a pony??? I didn't get a fucking pony with my camera…WTF????".
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+1. Really Tom..WTF??? This is not some group buy issue where people get crazy over pennies. This is a major life/career milestone, what is the future going to be decision, where you ante up or go into acting where you don't need any equipment.
 
Ken Willinger said:
This may have been asked/answered already. I have not read all the pages of this thread. Will modules, like the pro I/O, side handle, etc. still be useable?
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I haven't seen that answered anywhere. But I did see a picture of a purportedly new Redvolt XL module.
 
scott devitte said:
+1. Really Tom..WTF??? This is not some group buy issue where people get crazy over pennies. This is a major life/career milestone, what is the future going to be decision, where you ante up or go into acting where you don't need any equipment.
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Just like with everything else in life, "you pays your money and you takes your chances." None of this stuff comes with any guarantees. No guarantee it will make you money , no guarantee how long a lifespan it will have, no guarantees that your clients will call with bookings, no guarantee that you will make back your "investment". All you can do is do your research, know your market, and make your best educated guess. And then pray you got it right.
 
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