Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Update

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jarred Land said:
no-penalty low ISOs.
Click to expand...

To be open... (like I always am) I'm in no rush, I havent had any issues with the current sensor.
If you gave me another 4 stops so i can shoot at night (like the monochrome) with little to no grain. Well... then I'd be extra happy.
You would have built me the perfect camera :)
 
Take as long as you guys want, I encourage you to go slow. You wouldn't believe all the logistics one needs to work out with robbing a bank... LOL!

Jarred Land said:
Heh heh.. when it is ready. We really are taking our time with this one. Patience is a virtue Jim and I really never had much time for in the past, but for this it is proving to be worth it.

The Dragon as it sits today in terms of reliability and development is well past what Epic was when we shipped it. The power boards came in as expected and the Engineers are tightening things up. We are giving them as much time as they need and Graeme will give his final blessing when Dragon is fully baked.

We are finding wonderful things out along the way.. like just how incredible we can make the no-penalty low ISOs.

I probably should stop talking...
Click to expand...
 
Mike P. said:
I might be reading into this wrong. Just seems like the new/Dragon one has substantially different (better?) IR filtration.
Click to expand...

That's what they are saying. But I'm pretty sure that it's not something the MX sensor can be upgraded to. The OLPF layer is designed specifically for the sensor, so Dragon and MX have their own respective OLPF designs.
 
Jarred Land said:
We are finding wonderful things out along the way.. like just how incredible we can make the no-penalty low ISOs.
Click to expand...

Sounds very interesting. I wonder how it works, though, I would think a full well is a full well, and a clipped pixel is a clipped pixel (assuming a system that is not ADC-limited or at least is fixed hardware-gain-only, like previous RED cameras). Is Dragon 16 stops but ADC limited and getting some low hardware gain options? Or is it something else?

I'm not really expecting an answer, just thinking out loud :)

I guess it depends how "penalty" is defined, I would expect it refers to losing highlight range like you do with MX, but that seems fundamental to the software ISO design. If you get the same highlight range at low ISOs, doesn't that then mean some sensor range is lost at higher ISOs, so then there would sort of be a high ISO penalty relative to the old system?
 
Hello RED Family! anybody knows status on 6k dragon versus 4k Mysterium-X to compare quality and Low Noise Ratio FOOTAGE??? Can't wait to see that side by side

Thanks

Alain Maiki
 
A new update on the Dragon upgrades would be great.
 
Jarred Land said:
And remember Dragon has user-based resolution settings.. so you can "match" field of view Dragon to MX-Epic/Scarlet by shooting the adjusted resolution ( i.e. 5.3k for example ) and then use RCX etc. to balance the output...
Click to expand...

This ist super cool! Epic can be used for S16mm glas for instance. Great for docs in 1080p. I've been asking for this since 2008.

Haha! Thanks,

Hans
 
Jarred Land said:
We are finding wonderful things out along the way.. like just how incredible we can make the no-penalty low ISOs.

I probably should stop talking...
Click to expand...

Jarred,
Does this mean for HDRX we could use ISO instead of shutter speed? If we have no penalty low ISO's now, that could be an interesting way to achieve HDR without any motion artifacts. I'm not an engineer and don't know if it's possible, but it could be very interesting. Would be cool if we could combine ISO exposures to make HDR given the sensor is writing data for both exposures.
 
what major films will be shot with the Dragon???? RED ONE Hollywood hit, EPIC Hollywood hit , EPIC DRAGON????? footage please
 
Lee Saxon said:
Badass! I think Dragon might be the first cam to do that. I've always wondered why this wasn't being done, other than that it sounds complex from a programming point of view.
Click to expand...

I think most machine vision and industrial cameras can do it, so its not hard to do, but I guess it's tough for camera systems that are built around broadcast and digital cinema standard frame sizes or use standard broadcast codecs they don't design themselves. At a certain point, once the the camera already supports a few dozen resolution modes (1-6k each at 16:9, 1.9:1, ANA, WS...) why not just let it be whatever you want :)
 
Lee Saxon said:
Badass! I think Dragon might be the first cam to do that. I've always wondered why this wasn't being done, other than that it sounds complex from a programming point of view.
Click to expand...

It really isn't that difficult per say as long as the system is setup to do it and the ratios match up, nobody did in the past mostly because resolution used to be dictated by NLE and all the baggage that follow legacy formats.

Now that most NLEs are resolution independent, it makes things a bit easier. We have actually been making custom resolutions for years.. First for Fincher with prototype RED ONES because he needed a combination of max frame rate and overscan resolution for stabilization, and then when 3D came along there was custom frame sizes for dealing with IO post adjustment etc.

Noah is correct in his assumption, it got to a point where we had so many odd ball settings already in there, and Matt our head software guy got so tired of me asking him for custom frame sizes in custom builds, he said screw it and just put a user set custom box in there. Of course there still is the standard sizes listed for quick access.
 
User set frame sizes ... Very good, I suggested that about a year ago, Thank you !
Big question will be if the frame rates will get progressively faster as the vertical size decreases ? It is the vertical read out speed of the sensor that is the limit, after all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top